getting a table at the National

uniship · January 12, 2004 11:14AM

My buddy and I are finally going to get a table at the national this year (if they are still available). It will be our first time ever setting up at a show. Any of you veterans have any advice for a first timer???

qualitycards · January 12, 2004 11:19AM

UNI - Isn't there a waiting list for show tables? They dish the tables out based on past National show expierence...jay

murcerfan · January 12, 2004 11:20AM

Dealer Signup for the 25th National in Cleveland
NOTE THAT EXHIBIT SPACE FOR CLEVELAND IS NEARLY SOLD OUT. ONCE ALL SPACE IS ASSIGNED, YOU MAY BE PLACED ON A WAITING LIST. EXHIBIT SPACE BECOMING AVAILABLE IS FILLED FROM THAT LIST.
Exhibitor Space for the show will consist of 10' by 10' and 10' by 15' booths. Space is sold on a priority basis and payment must be made when your contract is submitted and returned to us. If you have additional questions, please call the National Office.

The address for The National is PO Box 35200, Las Vegas NV 89133

Tel: (702) 515-0636
Fax: (702) 363-8221

E-mail: NatlConv1@aol.com

1-877-5-NATIONAL

uniship · January 12, 2004 11:22AM

uhhhh, maybe I WONT be getting a table at the national. I will be calling them first thing tomorrow with credit card in hand to try to get a spot - I'll keep you posted. If not, is the Rosemont in March in Chicago happening again this year????

Eric

ps - THANKS MURCER for the numbers! - when are you going to sell me some 51 current all stars?????

murcerfan · January 12, 2004 11:30AM

I just sold a Kiner on e-bay last week.
don't hold your breath waiting for the next one to come around.
I thought you bought the Lipsett duplicates from Colt ??
you might consider working on the connie macks also.. to keep your interest up at least.

uniship · January 12, 2004 11:36AM

so Jay - and Murcer and anyone else - back to the question - what fundamental advice would you give for a first time show? What are the common mistakes or regrets that collectors like me make when they get their first table??? Thanks in advance!

Eric

murcerfan · January 12, 2004 11:46AM

I may not be the one to advise......
.............but I'm feeling chatty.
1. make up some biz cards and write your table # on it.
2. price things 10% more than you really want.
3. make sure you have change
4. don't eat at your table or spread out the newspaper to read over your cases (Levi will rent them to you)
5. make sure you have a "body-bag" to wrap-up the cases at night.
6. make sure to bring in a cooler of beer so I don't go thirsty

qualitycards · January 12, 2004 11:46AM

UNI - Are we talking about your 1st show setup ever or 1st National?
If its your 1st show ever, you may want to start out (practice) at a smaller show since the Nat'l can be overwhelming. Also you better get show cases like the Allstate ones that 95% use. Just don't leave stock loose on a table. Levi sells Allstate cases in many shapes & sizes, he also rents them at larger shows as many dealers fly in or do not have room in their vehicle. Also the National show tables cost alot and your expenses will also include transportation, hotels & meals (plus other expenses like if the IX center may have a staff that unloads your merchandise) - So with that said, make sure you have enough quality items priced right that would sell and can generate revenue to pay these bills. You don't want $2K worth of expenses with only $200 in sales...jay

uniship · January 12, 2004 11:59AM

thanks guys - we may do the Rosemont first on a smaller scale just to try to learn the ropes. We need to buy or rent those cases for sure, and we also need those bags to wrap everything up each night. Basically we are both throwing in $2000 each and hoping to break even on the weekend and have a lot of fun, meet some good people and just talk sports for five days. Don't get me wrong though, we want to try to make some money and acquire some great stuff too. We are going to have the business cards, as well as some literature on our new company - we really want to purchase large collections and we want to have one of those tables that always seems busy. We want to blow stuff out, as well as give people really good deals on anything and everything. We are going to have a good selection of not only cards raw and graded - but bobble heads, programs, oddball items and pennants and the like. I guess I have to get some sort of handle on what we actually have so I don't "give" anything away - but again, we want to churn and burn. How easy is it to acquire material??? With all those dealers, are you lucky to get one considerable purchase for the weekend - or do dozens of deals come your way over the entire show>?????

spacktrack · January 12, 2004 12:04PM

I can only imagine what type of dealing is going on at the National. I know at the 2003 National I heard of one dealer who bought out another dealer's show inventory on the first or second day. At the East Coast National that I go to each summer, there a few guys who love to buy up complete inventories and call it a day. Seems they set up just to have a central location to meet after working out deals. Anything they can sell in the process is a plus.

uniship · January 12, 2004 12:05PM

murcer - we were thinking of having a cooler of beer for the entire weekend at our table, and the more we visualized how the day would unfold, the more we concluded that it was probably not the best of ideas. Seems we are on the same page though. We will be offering free breath mints for all people who come to our table as a token of goodwill.

qualitycards · January 12, 2004 12:33PM

UNI - Make sure you have things in order w/ the tax man. You'll need applicable tax re-sale #'s from your orignating state and quite possibly the state you are selling at. You don't want to be off guard when its time to get your table, so look into that info ASAP or contact your accountant...jay

uniship · January 12, 2004 12:48PM

Jay, would you mind if I called you later in the week about that? I need an education when it comes to the related tax matters! Also, how do you account for each and every sale throughout the show? With all the buying and selling (especially for $1 & $2 small sales) - it would seem almost impossible.

KING KELLOGG · January 12, 2004 1:02PM

uniship......

Eric... Pay close attention to instruction #6 in murcerfan's 3rd. post...VERY IMPORTANT !!!

Jay has some good advice about setting up at a couple small shows first.

If you do set up...I'll be your first customer ! Go for it !!! It's a hoot !!!

(...beer at the table...mmmmmm...)

Your new best friend !!

Larry

Mantlefan · January 12, 2004 1:18PM

My buddy and I are finally going to get a table at the national this year (if they are still available). It will be our first time ever setting up at a show. Any of you veterans have any advice for a first timer???

Uniship..most important thing to do: Ask for a table as far away from Mr. Mint as possible!

Basilone · January 12, 2004 1:19PM

Larry-

Dont worry about the drinks..at the IX center they have little bar "kiosks" along the right side of the building (between the dealer tables and the concession/smoking tables.

John

uniship · January 12, 2004 1:19PM

Well hopefully there will be another dinner like there was last year. Is PSA putting on another get together?

qualitycards · January 12, 2004 1:37PM

UNI - Sure! If you want to call me, I can give you the Good, the Bad & the Ugly about setting up at shows, having a store, advertising or anything related to this industry. I don't know alot but what I do know is all realted to cards. Email me, and I can tell you when I'm free...jay Email Link

cmcclelland · January 12, 2004 1:54PM

Uniship,

As Murcerfan mentioned, I've got some extra Major League All-Stars and Connie Mack All-Stars. If you are interested, email me at cmcclelland@kc.rr.com.

Thanks.

Colt McClelland

murcerfan · January 12, 2004 2:10PM

I said bring a cooler full of beer, not drink it

................leave that part to your customers who look thirsty.
(I can stop by your table to show you that look).

The IX does have a nice full range of concessions.
and more importantly the floor is carpeted and not so tough on the feet.

yeah, bring extra folding chairs too.

edited to add:
I'd also try to get power at your booth (i don't know if this is standard) and bring a couple cheapo halogen lamps, especially if you are selling raw stuff, and especially at the Rosemont convention center which seems dark to me.

marty · January 12, 2004 2:49PM

There will not be any worry about having a table far away from Mr. Mint. You will be at the back of the show. You will not see many deals walk up to the table, remember Mr. Mint is in the front. There will be a lot of money in front of you. You may get the people that are tired of having their cards insulted and are just ready to dump them, that does happen. My first National was easy to set up and get away from, I was at the back door. The only decent stuff that I saw was a friend sent them too me. Take walkie talkies. You will want to walk the show and still be in touch. If you want to buy decently, take tons of cash and spend set up time walking the floor and picking off the dealers that are not too prood of their cards. Saturday evening and Sunday are good days to buy from dealers also. If you want to stress selling, do a lot of prep work. Set up quickly, because the bottom feeders will be there to occupy your time if you allow them. Have one set up and one deal with customers, dealers that is. Expect to have a 10X10 corner, the 15X10 will be gone. Set up at home or at another show. Look at your display and see if you would want to stop and buy from it. I use to have a problem with a theme. I had new wax, recent singles, all four sports, vintage and gloves. I asked another dealer what he thought of my display, and he told me that he did not know what I was selling. I did not have enough of anything. I also found that I could not get vintage cards offered to me when I have current cards on display. If you bring your own cases, and want to set up quicker, have your cards in the cases befor you arrive and pack them in with towels to keep them in place. This will also reduce tear down and the bulk that you are transporting. Bring a hand truck. If you wait for your turn to drive in, near the last, you will not have as much time to wander around. I am about done rambling. Plan on having a good time.

dude · January 12, 2004 11:23PM

Great post Marty. Lot's of sound advice.

Hubcap · January 13, 2004 1:19AM

As a vendor who travels all over the country, the previous Board members have provided you with very sound advise. I hope I can respectfully add to it.

1) Take a lot of sheets, maybe 8, to cover your back stuff at night. The body bags are good and remember to put as much product/cards in them as possible. I have heard of people walking off with the whole body bag if too light.

2) I would not get my own table(s) as a first time National vendor. Buy the table(s) from another vendor who has a decent priority. That's what I do with a company that I buy supplies from. They have a corporate booth and a double booth which I share back to back with another vendor. Costs me a little more, but well worth not being in the back of the room.

3) Keep your costs low.

a) Get a $39 per night room at a 2 star hotel off Priceline.
b) Maybe even get an efficiency or suite with a refrigerator, etc. Save on food costs.
c) Split the room/suite with as many people as possible. In Atlantic City. we had guys sleeping on cots and the floor. Final cost was $25 per night per person.
d) Say "Thank you" and don't hang out with other vendors who send big bucks ($75) each night at fancy restaurants. Go to a buffet for $12 and under.
e) Don't go to the strip clubs down at the Flats.
f) Have another vendor haul your stuff and fly SW Airlines (if available), depending on far away you are coming.
g) If you drive, map out a trip avoiding tolls. When I go from Albany NY to Chantilly VA via I-95 with my trailer, it's $35 each way. If I go another way down I-88, I-81, I-83, I-695- I-95 and I-495, no tolls. A little longer but you save $70.
h) If you drive, know ahead of time where the cheap gas is. There is a web site. Look for trucker Travel Plazas. A small difference of 10 miles between PA and OH, for me, can mean $13-15 cents per gallon less.
i) If you drive, travel at night. Less cops and keep it under 75 MPH. A ticket can ruin a show. Also less traffic driving at night.
j) Car pool from the hotel to the Convention Center with other vendors. It's $7 per vehicle to park, even if you are a vendor.
k) Don't buy food at the show. Stop at a super market in the morning and buy some breakfast (danish, cookies, etc), juice or soda.

4) Set up as early as possible. Let the EBAY bottom feeders buy up your junk first. Cover your expenses this way. Do volume deals wholesale.

5) Do not put your best or high grade cards out the first day. You might be disappointed to find them for sale on the other side of the room for sale at a much higher price. Save them for retail customers on the weekend.

6) Last and most important....do not buy and break any wax...no matter how great the show financially is for you.

7) If vintage, look for the guys who walk the show and buy huge low and mid grade cards at 8% of Book price, like Steve Buckhloltz. They break the lots and sell to vendors at 13% and make 5%. If they turn over $50,000 in a day, that's a nice profit of $2,500. You then can sell at 20% of book and make decent money.

8) Do not "fall in love" with any card in your inventory at this show. If you so, then you should not have brought it. Sell it online.

If you discipline your self, regardless of the number of shows you have done in the past, you will make money. Remember, the goal is not to lose money at these large national-type shows. Listen to the Board veterans and you will do fine. *smile*

Skycap · January 13, 2004 1:37AM

uniship said: "We are going to have a good selection of not only cards raw and graded - but bobble heads, programs, oddball items and pennants and the like"

From my experience as both a customer and helping someone a few times at his table during mega-conventions, I can advise:

1. Put a price sticker on as many items as possible. People don't like to repeatedly ask, "How much is this? How much is this? How much is this?"

2. Nothing turns off a graded card buyer more than to see a card with a price of double or triple the SMR for no good reason (like being a low pop card or something). In other words, don't price your stuff like it's God's precious gift to the card collecting world or nearly all of your cards will just sit there for the duration of the convention. You want to move the merchandise!

3. Publications typically don't do well at conventions, even at rock bottom prices. Unless it's a special program like a Super Bowl or old World Series, price them at 25 cents to a dollar. Old pennants (1960's and earlier) sometimes do very well. More recent ones are not that coveted.

4. Have everything organized as neatly as possible. Makes it easier for both the customer and you to find things. People hate it when a dealer says, "Well I know I have that xxxxx somewhere" and then can't find it.

5. Smile, exude confidence and a project a positive attitude! Treat everyone with the upmost respect, whether they are a ten-year old spending their only $10 or a collecting veteran. Nothing turns me off more than going to a table where the people look and act like they're attending a funeral. Smile!

Skycap

murcerfan · January 13, 2004 2:33AM

e) Don't go to the strip clubs down at the Flats.

Hey.......... I just had an idea for the registry luncheon

Skycap · January 13, 2004 3:12AM

Hubcap said: " 5) Do not put your best or high grade cards out the first day. You might be disappointed to find them for sale on the other side of the room for sale at a much higher price. Save them for retail customers on the weekend."

I respectfully disagree. My experience is that you should have your best items on display from the outset. Perhaps the only person interested in a particular card during the entire convention will be someone who sees it during the first few hours of the event. Withholding the card from your display means loss of precious exposure time. One should be willing to sell their items at all times -- why are you there in the first place? One can't worry about what the buyer will do with a card. They may keep it for 20 years or 20 minutes. Life's too short to care about what they're going to do with it. If they want to immediately sell it for a higher price, let them try. At least you will have (hopefully) made a satisfactory profit on the transaction. Volume is the key rather than trying to bleed every last cent on each and every sale.

Skycap

Machodoc · January 13, 2004 3:15AM

Had a chat with the Conference Housing guy today and thought I would pass along a couple of items. I really like the Embassy Suites approach to hotels, but according to this guy there are no options of that type available. The Sheraton at the airport is the closest hotel to the IX center at a mile away, but it is not walkable since it is within airport property and you would have to cross major highways to get there.

Shuttle service provided by the major franchises, Sheraton, Hilton & Marriott are said to be pretty reliable. The Hilton is recommended since it is a newer property and is in a location with lots of eating alternatives, whereas the others are pretty much captive to the hotel restaraunts.

I'm going to stay at the Marriott since I am a member of their rewards program and have already bought my VIP pass. The only question I have not resolved is whether to fly or drive. I live south of DC, but am leaning toward driving so I don't have to lug my booty through airports....

Basilone · January 13, 2004 4:07AM

Machodoc-

I would drive if I were you...it will provide you with more flexbility to get around town after the show hours are over. Its not that far of a drive..especially in the summer. (January would be a different story)

See you in Cleveland.

Basilone · January 13, 2004 4:08AM

Just an FYI....there is no hotel that is walkable to the IX Center...unless you like walking along a busy highway....not recommended.

Hubcap · January 13, 2004 4:41AM

John:

It's about 7-10 miles to downtown. Also, be prepared to pay $6-7 for parking once you get downtown. I was stunned that to go to a TGI Friday's in the Flats, we had to pay $6. So we went to another chain that had free parking.

For the Tri Star show in August, I stayed downtown at a Holiday Inn, got to park for free in their garage, and walked to different places, including the ball park. Split the $7 daily parking charge at the Conv Ctr with another vendor.

I think since the National is getting the place for free this year, they could pick up the cost of parking for at least vendors.

Does every one know the use of the Conv Ctr is free to the National this year??????????

AZ

mcastaldi · January 13, 2004 5:17AM

Uni> There are three shows in Chicago each year - all at the Donald E Stephens Convention Center in Rosemont. The Sun-Times show is in March and November. These are major regional shows and would be good practice for National.

SportsFest is also in the same facility each summer. It's a little bit bigger than the Sun-Times shows. Because it's sponsored by Krause Publications, the contact for dealer tables is likely different than it would be for Sun-Times shows.

Mike

jdalymgd · January 13, 2004 5:32AM

As one who goes to as many shows as possible here is some advice from a customer standpoint:

1. PLEASE put prices on all of your things. For the love of God I don't want to spend my whole day at one table while someone fumbles around in a price book. I will not stay at a table long if you have to say "How much?" everytime you look at a card.

2. A "How's it going?" to people is much appreciated. You do not need to be evryone's best friend but politeness will be rewarded.

3. Try to make you table as easy to look at is possible. Avoid large stacks of cards in display cases or at least label the top one with year and brand so we know what they all are.

4. Don't sit near Mr. Mint. A lot of people do avoid him if they are not selling and as a result tables around him. When he comes here to the Gibralter Shows in Mt Clemens, I think that is the reason he is not in a row with other dealers.

5. Nobody wants to see food being stuffed in your mouth and then have your greasy hands all over the cards they have been looking for all year. Try not to eat at your table.

6. Do not laugh at this one but I kid you not.... Keep your table neat in general. People will not want to buy cards from somone who table like boxcar Willy's hangout.

7. Dear God please put prices on your cards.

Just my two cents. I think that would be a blast. Have fun with it.

Paul

Basilone · January 13, 2004 5:41AM

Hupcap-

I live in the Cleveland area.....nice places to eat downtown are in the warehouse district. The flats are pretty lame.

Also..there is a Dave and Busters about 15 minutes (highway) west of the Airport off of I-480

Your right about the IX...car pool if you can..cause they will charge you 5-7 bucks to park...but there is plenty of parking!

BigKidAtHeart · January 13, 2004 6:49AM

<< 1. PLEASE put prices on all of your things. For the love of God I don't want to spend my whole day at one table while someone fumbles around in a price book. I will not stay at a table long if you have to say "How much?" everytime you look at a card.l >>

Paul I agree with you but prices on
the cards will not solve the problem.

It is like some used car dealers put prices
on their car windows and some do not, but
it doesnt matter becuase you and I and everyone
knows you would NEVER pay sticker price for a car.
Well that is the same with cards. IF there is a
price on it, it will NOT be a low or rock bottom steal,
rather likely it will be a High book price or better.
So instead of saying "How much?" over and over
you will be saying "How much will you take off this?"
or "what is the best you can do on this one?"
or "is that price correct?", "Dont you think it is a bit
on the high side?" , "you will never get that for it!"

well, anyway, you know what I mean.
~jeff

qualitycards · January 13, 2004 7:22AM

BIGKID - Yo do have a point, but at least if a card is priced prior you can see if the card is in your budget, and then anything that can reduce it is gravy. Case in point, a PSA card that you like is calling out to you. You feel that you'd like it for $50.00, theres no price on it and then the dealer states $200. Even if he now reduced his price in half (which he wouldn't do anyway) its still out of your price points. But if said card is priced at $55.00, then you at least know your in the ballpark with the $50 you wanted to spend...jay

jdalymgd · January 13, 2004 9:12AM

That is a valid point. Everyone wants to deal. It does help to know though if someone is wanting 4x book for a card. It saves me time to know not to bother.

Paul

JusttheFacts · January 13, 2004 10:17AM

Here are some suggestions from a customer's perspective:

(1) If you are going to sell raw commons, it takes a customer time to go through all of the cards. Some dealers carry light folding chairs to offer to customers. I'll spend a lot more time going through commons if I'm comfortable. Standing in one place becomes uncomfortable after a half hour or so.

(2) Greet each customer when they first stop by the table. I've decided to spend more time looking at a table because a dealer was friendly. Conversely, I walk away from tables if I'm ignored. Don't try to guess which customers are the big spenders. In this hoppy especially, it's almost impossible to tell who has the coin to spend from just looking at them.

(3) If selling commons, at least commons that are 7 or better, put them in some kind of protective holder. There are two reasons for this. One, if you don't put them in a holder, customers may assume that there are no high grade cards available since you aren't protecting them. Second, you want the customers looking through cards to buy them, not spending time holdering the cards. Even if you holder the cards for the customer after they are selected, you are wasting both your time and the customer's time during the process.

(4) I agree with the posts that recommend pricing the cards ahead of time. I also agree that you shouldn't price the cards with your final offer. However, don't price the cards more than 25% above what you would be happy receiving for the card. I won't even bother haggling as a customer if the price marked is completely out of whack with what I'm looking to pay. It's a particular problem with graded cards at shows (I go to the major regional shows in Chicago). Cards that go for 50% of SMR on eBay are priced at 200% of SMR. I'm not expecting to get cards for eBay prices at shows, but I'm not willing to get fleeced either.

(5) If space makes it impossible to display all of your cards, bring a sign that can be posted listing what cards are available (ex. we have Topps commons from 1960-69, please ask). Then, even if the cards are in storage behind your table, the customer will know they are available. Otherwise, the customer will walk by without ever knowing.

(6) If you are buying, list on a sign what you are interested in buying. This may save you time in dealing with someone who is selling something you don't want (ex. 1990 Donruss baseball).

(7) I would recommend focusing on either cards or collectibles but not both. Generally speaking, the dealers who lack focus also lack a strong inventory in either thus making it less worthwhile to the customer to stop.

(8) If you are selling individual cards valued at $50 or more, make sure you have a good light and a magnifier. Many customers who want such items will bring their own, but I think it enhances the dealer's credibility to offer these tools to customers because it shows you have faith in the quality of your product. Obviously, if you are buying such cards, have those tools available.

(9) Organize your material so that it can be found quickly, and display it so that it can be seen. Some dealers may have what I want but I'm not going to go searching through cards unless they are at least organized by year, team, player, or some other reasonable method.

(10) Most important is to have fun and be enthusiastic about the hobby. Your attitude will be infectious on the customers. It shows if the dealer has no concern for the hobby.

John

qualitycards · January 13, 2004 10:31AM

<< It does help to know though if someone is wanting 4x book for a card. >>

JD - Sometimes a card at 4 x smr is a steal, like a '65 Charley Smith, '56 Pirates team etc...
My point was more or less deciding how much a card was worth to you, if you were willing to pay $50 and the dealer stated $200, then there was no use w/ further dialogue. ...jay

ctsoxfan · January 13, 2004 3:12PM

This is a great thread with a lot of great advice. A prospective dealer can learn a lot here. Two points really stood out for me -

<< 2. Nothing turns off a graded card buyer more than to see a card with a price of double or triple the SMR for no good reason (like being a low pop card or something). In other words, don't price your stuff like it's God's precious gift to the card collecting world or nearly all of your cards will just sit there for the duration of the convention. You want to move the merchandise! >>

Amen to this! C'mon, you guys know who you are, and I wonder if anyone buys anything from you at shows. Especially in conjunction with this point -

<< (4) I agree with the posts that recommend pricing the cards ahead of time. I also agree that you shouldn't price the cards with your final offer. However, don't price the cards more than 25% above what you would be happy receiving for the card. I won't even bother haggling as a customer if the price marked is completely out of whack with what I'm looking to pay. It's a particular problem with graded cards at shows (I go to the major regional shows in Chicago). Cards that go for 50% of SMR on eBay are priced at 200% of SMR. I'm not expecting to get cards for eBay prices at shows, but I'm not willing to get fleeced either. >>

Ebay has changed the game so much, that you need to be in line with it (or close) at a show, or most buyers will just wait until they get home to spend the real money. I know I do.

Scottsdalecards · January 14, 2004 1:03AM

Just a note for those of you wishing to get great hotel deals for the National at the IX Ceter...

www.biddingfortravel.com will help you get the BEST possible deal on Priceline.com for your hotel. It will let you know what hotels people are getting, in what area of town, and at what price (The most important part!)

Be sure to read all the FAQ's. It will explain most of your questions. The ONLY city I have been to for a show and this didn't work for was Atlantic City, NJ last year. There just weren't any cheap rooms that week.

I use this for my show travel all the time. For example: Hollywood Park show (Los Angeles, CA) Feb 6-8 2004. Host hotel Crowne Plaza $69.00/night. I am staying at the LAX Hilton for $33.00 a night! (Bid on a 3* hotel on Priceline.com at LAX) I figure the extra money I save each night can buy a nice dinner.

Hope this helps some of you out.

Brian Marcy
www.Scottsdalecards.com

KING KELLOGG · January 14, 2004 1:27AM

Scottsdalecards...

Hey Brian..... Welcome to the boards!!

Great advice on priceline.com. Went to the Boston show a few weeks ago and tried their service. Punched in 3*'s for the area I wanted and got a new 3 room suite (working kitchen too..) for $50.00 a night....IN BOSTON!!!

This "biddingfortravel.com" just makes it better...

BTW...Thanks for the great deal you made me on all those Kellogg's sets at the last National.

Best

Larry

Scottsdalecards · January 14, 2004 1:33AM

I tell everyone I know to BOOKMARK www.biddingfortravel.com It could be the single most helpful website on the internet.

Brian
www.Scottsdalecards.com

Skycap · January 14, 2004 1:58AM

Brian (Scottsdalecards),

Thanks for the above post! Every out-of-town person planning to attend the National should heed your advice. Even though the official National convention web site shows hotels available at discounted prices, these discounts significantly pale in comparison to what people can get through priceline.com. If you want to save nice bucks, don't go through the National convention housing bureau! Go through priceline.com. I'm going to try to stay at one of the official convention hotels at half (or less) of the price the National housing bureau is asking -- and I'll still get my frequent flyer points. Rooms should be plentiful in Cleveland that time of year; how many people go to Cleveland for their summer vacation? (no offense meant to Cleveland!)

Skycap

qmayer · January 14, 2004 11:31AM

<< (10) Most important is to have fun and be enthusiastic about the hobby. Your attitude will be infectious on the customers. It shows if the dealer has no concern for the hobby. >>

This is EXTREMELY important. I have two stories from the past National in AC:

- I forget the shop name, but it was the one with the Wheaties boxes and about 50 binders full of commons. I pulled out a good $100 worth of $0.25-$1 commons. Took me about 2 hours, which I know they had to have seen me. I go up to tell them I wanted to buy them, and they ignored me for 5 minutes. I'm standing there with a handful of cards and they ignore me. They had 3 people working and casually helping other customers, but no one told me "Be right with you" or anything. So I wait another 5 minutes because these were nice cards. I ask them if I could get these for 85-90% of whatever their list price was, and they said "No" and simply walked off. No counter-offer or anything. Needless to say I didn't want to haggle with them any more.

- My brother is collecting 86 Fleer BK and he was pulling out commons suitable for grading. He goes up to this one lady and starts looking through her box of 86's. She says to him, "Don't you hate it when people go through cards and mess everything up?" Although my brother is somewhat messy, he is no slob when it comes to sports cards, much less other peoples'. He nods politely and continues to look through the cards. He looks through a couple hundred and chooses 1. He asks how much it was and she says $2. He says "Could you go to $1?" She replies "Stop wasting my time." He drops the card and walks off.

Maybe there was good reason for the way these dealers acted, but politeness goes a long way. I would be more willing to spend a little more than I wanted if the dealer seemed polite and willing to work with me.

Justin

Skycap · January 15, 2004 1:45AM

Justin,

I have some stories too. Briefly, here's one:

At a big convention several years ago, I spent about an hour carefully going through a dealer's raw card albums. I took out about 30 or 40 cards, annotated their prices and set them aside. When I was finished and totalled them up (I don't recall how much, perhaps about $200 to $300), the dealer advised that I would have to add 10% to the total price because he said I had cherry-picked the best cards! I simply left the cards in a pile and walked away.

OK, here's another:

At a convention last year, I asked a very well-known PSA dealer how much a particular card cost since he did not use price stickers for any of his cards. He asked me how much I was willing to pay. I said $60, since that was what the SMR showed (and this was not for any special or low-pop card). He said something like, "Well, the SMR is out of date." I replied with, "I just received the SMR two days ago, and the price of this card hasn't changed in at least a year." He then asked how much higher I'd be willing to go, and I said $65, to which he responded, "You can have it for $125." Again, I walked away.

Skycap

ctsoxfan · January 15, 2004 12:33PM

<< At a convention last year, I asked a very well-known PSA dealer how much a particular card cost since he did not use price stickers for any of his cards. He asked me how much I was willing to pay. I said $60, since that was what the SMR showed (and this was not for any special or low-pop card). He said something like, "Well, the SMR is out of date." I replied with, "I just received the SMR two days ago, and the price of this card hasn't changed in at least a year." He then asked how much higher I'd be willing to go, and I said $65, to which he responded, "You can have it for $125." Again, I walked away. >>

Wow, that sounds familiar to me! This wasn't at the Greater Boston show last fall was it? I had a similar experience there with a big PSA dealer who I have seen around many times, but I cannot remember his name (he was from NY, I believe, and he was a large and somewhat friendly fellow). He had a lot of PSA graded 70's football (which I collect), but with every one I picked out from him, he complained the SMR "was out of date" or "not in touch with the real market" and demanded more for every card! I told him not to insult me any further with comments like that, and left his table in a hurry. Too bad, I was really in a spending mood that day, and I bought almost a thousand dollars worth of stuff from a table two booths away from him.

Wabittwax · January 15, 2004 9:56PM

Brian, nice to see you on these boards. This is Steve from the card shows. Me and my friend Dave set up there sometimes. I'm not sure how many Steve's you know, but you would recognize me if you saw me. Marty has discovered these boards and he replys a lot. You will get addicted to reading these posts every day, but there is a lot of info to learn here. I thought I knew a lot until I came here. Well anyways, good to see you've joined us.

By the way, you've got some free advertising here in the past. I've seen people on here recommend your site to others when they are looking for something.

getting a table at the National

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