Molitor and Eck

purelyPSA · January 6, 2004 5:06AM

Molitor was a no brainer, but I must say I'm surprised Eckersley went in on the first ballot. I realize his dominance, but the writers seem to hate closers - look at Lee Smith. I had figured that John Smoltz might have a hard time making the Hall but hey, maybe another three years closing in Atlanta and he'll be Hall-bound too.

sellerman23 · January 6, 2004 5:33AM

Congrats to them both!
Right after I heard the news, I bought a 1983 Topps Molitor PSA 9 on eBay with a BIN for my HOF set and to start my new 1983 Topps graded set.

Dave
sellerman23

carkim · January 6, 2004 8:04AM

Hall of Fame Voting
The complete vote (506 ballots, 380 votes needed to gain election, 26 to remain on the ballot):
Player, Votes, Pct.
Paul Molitor, 431, 85.2%
Dennis Eckersley, 421, 83.2%
Ryne Sandberg, 309, 61.1%
Bruce Sutter, 301, 59.5%
Jim Rice, 276, 54.5%
Andre Dawson, 253, 50%
Rich Gossage, 206, 40.7%
Lee Smith, 185, 36.6%
Bert Blyleven, 179, 35.4%
Jack Morris, 133, 26.3%
Steve Garvey, 123, 24.3%
Tommy John, 111, 21.9%
Alan Trammell, 70, 13.8%
Don Mattingly, 65, 12.8%
Dave Concepcion, 57, 11.3%
Dave Parker, 53, 10.5%
Dale Murphy, 43, 8.5%
Keith Hernandez, 22, 4.3%
Joe Carter, 19, 3.8%
Fernando Valenzuela, 19, 3.8%
Dennis Martinez, 16, 3.2%
Dave Stieb, 7, 1.4%
Jim Eisenreich, 3, 0%
Jimmy Key, 3, 0%
Doug Drabek, 2, 0%
Kevin Mitchell, 2, 0%
Juan Samuel, 2, 0%
Cecil Fielder, 1, 0%
Randy Myers, 1, 0%
Terry Pendleton, 1, 0%
Danny Darwin, 0, 0%
Bob Tewksbury, 0, 0%

Vargha · January 6, 2004 8:23AM

They're both deserving. I never could understand the whole "first ballot" ruckus though. Either he's worth it or he isn't and then vote accordingly.

joedel · January 6, 2004 8:53AM

What really surprises me is that Joe Carter, with:

1,170 Runs,
2,184 hits,
432 doubles,
396 HR's,
1,445 RBI's,
231 SB's
.464 Slugging %

4 Top 10 MVP years

and a

5 time All-Star

DID NOT receive the required 5% of the vote, and is not on the ballot anymore.

Now I do not think he is HALL worthy, but he definitely should have received a lot more support. Plus, he also hit one of the most famous home runs in World Series history, being only the second player ever to record a series ending, walk-off blast.

Who else on the list of candidates do you guys think deserves more support? I think Steve Garvey deseves to be in. He was the leader of those great Dodger teams, and accumulated 6 years of 200 or more hits. Also, Jim Rice was the most dominant sluggers of his era and put up staggering numbers for his career.

joedel · January 6, 2004 9:02AM

What surprsises me most about the HOF ballot is that Joe Carter, with:

1,170 runs

2,184 hits

432 doubles

396 homers

1,445 RBI's

231 SB's (power and speed)

.464 slugging %

with 4 top 10 MVP season's

and a 5x all-star

DID NOT receive more than 5% of the ballot and is now off the ballot for good.

Who else do you guys think deserves more support? I believe Steve Garvey belongs in the Hall. He was the epitome of consistency, and was the leader of those great Dodgers teams of the 70's and 80's. He also had 6 years of 200 or more hits, almost consecutively, only surrounding a middle season of 192 hits. Jim Rice was the dominant slugger in his time, and as a Yankee fan, I dreaded seeing Rice come up more than any other player during that time period. All his staggering numbers were put up pre-steroid, pre-andro and pre-creatine.

CW · January 6, 2004 9:16AM

I'm surprised by this:

Jim Eisenreich, 3, 0%
Jimmy Key, 3, 0%
Doug Drabek, 2, 0%
Kevin Mitchell, 2, 0%
Juan Samuel, 2, 0%
Cecil Fielder, 1, 0%
Randy Myers, 1, 0%
Terry Pendleton, 1, 0%

Maybe they're just "team support" votes or people voting for
personal friends, but who could seriously vote for these guys?
I also think Jack Morris deserves way more support.

onegaucho · January 6, 2004 9:32AM

What about Sandberg?

1 MVP
Most HRs by a 2nd baseman, ever with 277 (I think)
9 Gold Gloves (8 straight)
10 All star appearances

.285 batting avg doesn't help, but a great fielder with relative power for that position.

joedel · January 6, 2004 9:36AM

Maybe those guys did get some personal support so they can tell their grandkids they received a votye for the Hall of Fame. Reminds me of a story about how Rick Ferrell got in. At the time, one of Ferrell's friends went to each member of the Veteran's Committee and suggested that they vote for Rick just to "give him one vote, but don't tell anybody else, it will be our secret." Well, many of those members DID vote for Rick, and he entered the Hall of Fame.

It is amazing how many hits Molitor piled up, considering he was always hurt and missed about 400+ games during his career. Just image if he stayed healthy (not like Ripken healthy, but "normal" healthy), he might have reached 4,000 career hits!

An intersting question, who do you guys think does NOT belong in the Hall, but are already in? I think Rabbit Maranville, George Kell and possibly even Phil Rizzuto. If Pee Wee Reese and Rizzuto are in, then why not Bert Campaneris and Dave Concepcion?They were the 1970's equivalents to the Dodger and Yankee shortstops.

joedel · January 6, 2004 9:43AM

Here is a great link to who I consider the best baseball writer in the country, Sports Illustrated's Tom Verducci. The first link is his take on last year's election with his comments on Sandberg:

Sandberg

this one is his take on this year's ballot:

Molitor/Eck

onegaucho · January 6, 2004 9:50AM

joedel-

Great article on Sandberg. Thanks.

BTW, did you get my payment for the 59T Snider I won from you last week?

joedel · January 6, 2004 9:59AM

Yes, and it was sent out last yesterday. I have more 59's up on ebay right now, and I also started a "raw cards" site on ebay name under "rawcardsguy". I read a thread about a week or two ago about the lack of raw cards and decided to give this a shot. Hope there is enough support for it.

joedel

rawcardsguy

Cubfan · January 6, 2004 10:00AM

As I have stated on other posts, at least Sandberg showed marked improvement this year.

Sticking to second basemen, how can he not be in the Hall of Fame someday when Bill Mazeroski, Bobby Doerr and my all time Hall of Fame head scratcher, Red Schoendienst are in?

Im obviously biased as I saw Sandberg play in probably over 1,000 games in his career and appreciated his steadyness and consistency and near flawless performance with the glove.

The thing I always found interesting was the fact that he was a shortstop in the minors and played his rookie season at third base for the Cubs. Second base was relatively new to him and he won the gold gloves anyway.

If he keeps improving the vote tally, he will make it, regardless of who is or is not in right now.

joedel · January 6, 2004 10:17AM

I personally do not think Mazeroski, Doerr or Schoendienst deserve to be in the Hall. I have pet peeve about hose guys who argue stats. "Well, this guy had 2,200 hits and the guy with 2,100 is in. " My criteria constitutes: If you have to try and make a case for a guy -- he is not a Hall of Famer. You have to be 100% sure right off the bat. Those other guys like Gil Hodges, Ron Santo, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Al Oliver and even those guys already in like Schoendienst, Ashburn, and most other guys elected by the Veteran's Committee were good...but not great. Even the guys I mentioned above like Garvey and Rice were really good...but Hall worthy? Maybe.

I think the Hall of Fame is for the Ruth's, Mantle's, Aaron's, Cobb's, DiMaggio's etc. Induct those really great ballplayers who have made a tremendous impact on the game through domination during their era. Maybe they should have, in addition to the Hall of Fame, a "Corridor of Really Excellent Ballplayer's" (CREB), which could be based in Chicago or Boston, depending on which city finally wins a World Series first.

theBobs · January 6, 2004 12:37PM

joedel, sent you an PM on the card you have. please let me know your thoughts.

roastedcat · January 6, 2004 1:17PM

I just bought both Paul Molitor & Dennis Eckersley autograph cards on ebay right now, I picked them up dirt cheap! under $20. for my Hall of Fame Autograph set, it's best to buy it now on the day they were inducted into the Hall of Fame, their autograph cards should sky rocket in price soon $40. and up.

Jery

joedel · January 6, 2004 1:18PM

theBobs,

How do I view it?

purelyPSA · January 6, 2004 3:51PM

Roastedcat - Molitor and Eck signed cards are cheap because they were very willing signers as players - both were steady by-mail successes for the large part of their careers. There won't be much of a spike, if any at all, in their values.

liffeystynx · January 7, 2004 1:33AM

I'm anxiously waiting for my Eckersley auto, which I picked up for $5 on Christmas Eve, to arrive.

Hope the seller hasn't realized how badly his timing was off ...

jery:
I've had an $18 Molitor auto sitting patiently waiting for grading since last December. Now thinking about picking up a Sandberg - looks like it's only a matter of time.

dude · January 7, 2004 1:44AM

Jim Eisenreich, 3 (votes)

He must have 3 relatives on the committee.

Seriously though, he had only 52 HRs and a lifetime BA of .290 and never made the All-Star team or came close to leading the league in any catagory (best effort: 8th in the league in triples in 1990). I'd love to see those 3 voters go public and justify why they believe he should be in the Hall of Fame.

liffeystynx · January 7, 2004 1:48AM

I'm guessing those votes come under the "Heroism in the face of Adversity" heading. His struggle against Tourette's Syndrome captured the public imagination in a way that his play didn't. A different kind of "Fame" let's say.

dude · January 7, 2004 1:54AM

liffeystynx -- Now that you mention it -- I do remember hearing about his illness.

theBobs · January 7, 2004 2:32AM

joedel,

It appears that you have turned off the PM function. I responded to your original PM request. I have also sent email to joe@joedelgrippo.com, but it bounces. Please advise as to the best way to contact you.

Thanks

joedel · January 7, 2004 4:05AM

you can contact me at jdelgrippo@comcast.net

How do you turn the PM function on?

purelyPSA · January 7, 2004 6:40AM

The writers' rebuttal to Dude's question

dude · January 7, 2004 7:00AM

Thanks for the article purelyPSA. I guess the only danger is if 75% or more vote for the same guy who deserves some recognition but isn't worthy of the Hall of Fame.

Molitor and Eck

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