Why hide details of a registered set?

Pinchdatail · July 18, 2003 11:55AM

Just curious, but why would someone want to hide the details of their registered set to other viewers? The only thing I could think of is that they don't want their "competition" going after the same cards that they need.

Any other reasons out there? Just curious.

LongBall · July 18, 2003 12:07PM

mostly it is to keep down the vultures that will absolutely kill you at auctions if they know you are after a specific card. they are ruthless.

KING KELLOGG · July 18, 2003 12:08PM

Well said, Longball...

Larry

1420sports · July 18, 2003 12:13PM

Real men do not hide their sets.

KING KELLOGG · July 18, 2003 12:21PM

Yeah Neal...

Real (rich) men do not hide their sets.

Larry

Virtualizard · July 18, 2003 12:22PM

I agree with Neal.

I am happy to share all of my cards with other collectors.

Here is another thread on this topic from a few days ago.

My position on this subject remains the same - you hurt yourself more than you help yourself by hiding your set. If you bid responsibly on ebay and search for deals outside of ebay, who cares if someone has the cards you need targeted? Sniping also eliminates over 99% of this crap.

So, please make your sets visible and please include nice scans of every card!

Thank you.

JEB.

Vargha · July 18, 2003 1:15PM

I have no issue with people hiding details of their set until completed or almost completed. I have done it both ways in the past with different sets. At one time on my 1951 Bowman set, the details were hidden, but about 20 dealers received a wantlist every month.

mcastaldi · July 18, 2003 1:41PM

Jeb> You forgot something. . .besides bidding responsibly. . .besides searching for deals outside of eBay. . .one of the surest ways to avoid those types of problems is to submit your own stuff. While I know most of the people who've posted on this thread so far do submit their own cards, when I talk to other collectors in general I continue to be amazed at how many people think they can sit back and bottom-feed their entire set on eBay.

I understand why people will hide their set as they get close to the end and need only a few cards. But. . .I guess I don't understand why someone would hide a set before getting to say 90 or 95%. The vultures really aren't a factor until you have only a limited number of cards remaining. And as Jeb mentioned, if you hide your set it makes it that much harder for people to help you. Using my 75 set as an example, I never hid the grades at any point. When I got to about 45 or 50%, I got an e-mail from another 75 collector who'd received a bunch of duplicates back from PSA. I ended up buying roughly 10% of the set from him in one fell swoop. I'm pretty convinced that if he wasn't able to see what I needed, he'd have been a lot less willing to help me out.

Mike

Vargha · July 18, 2003 1:48PM

Mike -- submitting your own cards is also a factor of access to high grade, raw material, trust in one's skills and availability (as many vintage sets have very limited high grade cards left in unslabbed condition). Time and money are also a factor. For someone like John Branca, it would be worth more money for him to get a "billable" hour of time from a client than it would to be sifting through a vending run of 1969 Topps for the same period of time.

In the 1975 Topps world, probably 50% of the set can be had in PSA 8 for less than the cost of the slab; much less the cost of one's time in searching for raw cards to submit, submission fees and then the cost of the slab. You are far more the exception than the rule, especially since you are so good at it.

Griffins · July 18, 2003 2:12PM

I think there are a lot of reasons to hide your set, but the bottom line is privacy. Whether it is to not show others what you still need, or just to keep things to yourself, there are legitimate reasons to do so. I have a few sets on the registry, and generally show the ones I'm still working on and hide the ones that are incidental to my set collecting- HOF sets, player sets, etc. I'm not interested in going after cards for those composite sets, it's just a by product of the sets I'm working on.
There are many reasons to participate in the registry. I've heard initially it was for a few people to measure who had the best '52 set. I use it to gauge how consistant I"m being in building the set in terms of condition- prior to the registry my sets varied a whole lot more than they do now (and many of those are still all over the place). Others may use it as a checklist they can access from anywhere, or an off site record of their collections in case of a loss.
But as much as this seems like a small community of (mostly) friends, keep in mind that there are a whole lot more people that look at these boards and the listed sets that never participate at all. If someone wants to keep their sets hidden from a public site it doesn't offend me. Whenever I've worked on a particularly tough set I've ended up talking to most or all of the others that were doing the same, and we all pretty much knew what each other had and needed, whether the registry had the sets hidden or not. While I don't have any statistics to back this up, I suspect that for every set registered there are quite a few more that will never be- just as there will always be many more gradeable cards that never make their way into a grading room.
What I don't understand is why a collector would retire his set and still keep it hidden. You don't have it any more, why not share it- no reason I can think of would preclude it.
On the subject of scans I just don't have the time to scan my cards. And with the possible exception of a handful of truly rare ones I can't see why anyone would be that interested in seeing anything I have anyway. If you really want to look at pictures of cards enclosed in plastic I suggest a much easier way. Start saving Superior, Lipset, SCP, and Mastro catalogs. They make excellent reference material and feature some of the best cards in the hobby. I got a whole bunch of Mastro catalogs for $50, and Rob Lifson sent me another stack just for asking. Besides having informative copy and excellent photography they also help in the tracking of prices and availability of just about every sports collectable. And its a whole lot easier to carry them to the beach.
At the end of the day I"m just happy that someone would want to participate in the registry, in the closet or not. It usually means they are actively collecting and have a similar passion for this hobby. And for that we all benefit.

1420sports · July 18, 2003 9:37PM

I am registered on several sets - mostly all of average grade and mostly all for the fun of collecting. The Pete Rose Master Set is the one I really would like to finish as #1 - for this year at least, as Marshal Fogel is right on my heels. I have no way to compete with him. There is only one hidden set in the group, and it kind of is annoying to see his set upgraded and not knowing what card. Did he find a nice Kahn's or an elusive 75 Kellogg's PSA 9? We never know ...

Open the sets up for your peers to view.

mcastaldi · July 18, 2003 11:59PM

David> I can't disagree with anything you said, but have a couple comments.

For me, I'm a copmputer technician and bill my time at $125/hr. If I were interested only in the time value of money, sure. . .I could just bill more hours, not take a Friday off to go to a weekend show, and wait for already-graded examples to present themselves. But. . .if I did this, I'd be missing out on something I really enjoy - looking through raw cards for high-grade examples of the sets I'm building. Also, I'd be missing out on opportunities to find upgrades to cards I already have. If the set itself, or the holders, were the main factor for me then I'd completely agree. But for me, it's about the cards - so for me, the money factor is not one of absolutes. At the same time, I do consider myself fortunate to have three major shows a year come to town. As for my being good at finding raw cards to submit, I don't so much see it that way because I'm not doing anything special. I mean anyone who takes the time to learn the issue they're working with & looks at their cards with brutal honesty can achieve equal results.

For 1970s sets, you can generally pick up 50% or better already holdered for grading fees or less (as you mentioned). However, I think you'll be hard pressed to complete any of these sets without other avenues of obtaining cards.

Pinchdatail · July 19, 2003 2:55AM

OK - I'm exposing myself to the masses.

Pete Maravich Basic Set - Ranked #2

Pete Maravich Master Set - Ranked #1

mikeschmidt · July 19, 2003 12:33PM

I have no problems displaying my Mike Schmidt basic and master sets. They are a labour of love for me, I recognize that I will put more money into them than they are worth -- and I submit a large number of the cards that are or were in my set. That being said -- I would not register and display my 1955 Bowman set until I had all the cards I needed in PSA 8. There are too many dealers out there who would take advantage of that information, and too many who might exploit that information against my pocketbook. There are still over a dozen cards from the set in PSA 8 NM/MT condition with populations less than 5. I have nearly all of them -- but don't want people asking me $1,000s of dollars for a common only because they know I need it. Not worth it for me. I am happy to work out trades and to keep wantlists with trusted dealers. I will always snipe on Ebay for upgrades as appropriate. I've spent more on that sent than I ever planned -- and don't need to make it any worse by letting others know just which ones they can exploit my weak spot for more money. I've been building the set for five years -- and there are definitely a number of cards that I can say just don't exist in high grade. I've been lucky in a few instances -- and will try and keep the odds in my favor. Until I can complete in PSA 8 and better, I will not register and display that set.

MS

Alfiewt · July 20, 2003 12:10PM

I can see why for some sets collectors don't want to show the contents of their sets, but think that overall a collector hurts himself more by not showing the contents by making it harder for other collectors to help him. It makes sense to close off a set to viewing if you are getting run up on cards you need, but to arbitrarily close off all sets doesn't make much sense. I have even seen a few complete all PSA 10 sets that are blackened out. Even know I know the contents of the set, it still bugs me to see it blackened out, and I think it really goes against the spirit of the registry. I still think PSA should allow collectors to close off their sets, but I think they should have incentives for collectors not to close off their sets. Maybe something like not having the closed sets eligible for the awards and free gradings if they have been closed off to viewing for more the 90 days in the past year.

Fuzz · July 21, 2003 4:10AM

In my case, I have some of my sets hidden, some open, some only partially listed and some not listed at all. In most cases it is strictly a function of who I am competing with (as they are all #1 or #2 or relatively close too it) but in a few cases just a bit lazy. In a couple of cases, I correspond with my "competitor" and have worked on projects with them. I have grown to really like these guys and if there set is open, mine is too. If there's is closed ...... mine is too. In a few cases, I have had a dealing or two with a competitor and found it didn't go so well. In that case, sets will not only not be blocked but often will only be partially entered or not even entered at all until the last minute or when I have a substantial lead.
In my listed sets, I have never really been offered a card that I needed except by someone who would have helped me anyway, so I don't see the value. In most sets, they other collectors already know which cards are hard and you will pay a fortune anyway. So for me, I just use it mirror the competition. I see little benefit one way or the other.
Fuzz

SKINSFAN · July 21, 2003 5:41AM

Well said FUZZ. And trust me Fuzz is 1 tough competitor!!!!!!!!!!

gtbeaker · July 21, 2003 6:30AM

I have no problems displaying the contents of all my player sets. I would actually enjoy a little more competition on my Joe Morgan and Tony Perez player sets, since those haven't seemed to take off the way the Johnny Bench sets did.

pc · July 21, 2003 6:53AM

displaying an unfinished set is to me
the same as walking around with a
bullseye target on my back.

Virtualizard · July 21, 2003 7:17AM

<< <i>I have no problems displaying the contents of all my player sets. I would actually enjoy a little more competition on my Joe Morgan and Tony Perez player sets, since those haven't seemed to take off the way the Johnny Bench sets did. >>

gtbeaker,

OK, you asked for it. I've been looking for another set to go after. Look for some competition soon.

My take on the set registry is that it is all in fun. I like the competition, but for me it's not the all out, plan your strategy, go for the jugular, kill 'em all, covert action that it seems to be for some of you guys. Whatever your method, it doesn't change mine. Good luck to everyone.

JEB.

mrichards · July 21, 2003 7:37AM

Hi Everyone.

I love to show all of my completed sets (whether finished or not) on the registry. I am one of the few proud collectors to also scan every card and show pics so everyone can see them. Whether the set is worth thousands or nothing, I do not discriminate. About 3 months ago, I was getting emails on new cards for my 52 Bowman set. I need only 9's to upgrade. It seemed when my set was shown (visible); any person who had a card I needed in a 9 clubbed me over the head. I never minded paying 2 to 5 times SMR for a 9 (regardless of POP) if I needed that card, but 10x-20x was a little much. Much to my dismay, I hid the set from view and it seems all of the vultures dropped their prices on the cards I needed. It also kept all of the other set registrants in that category at bay so they did not know which cards I needed and drove me up on the price on Ebay, other auction houses. I would love to display the set, but unfortunately I'm not rich like some other collectors so this has been a great way for me to get somewhat of a fair price. That is my side of the story. One day once I feel I am finished (satisfied) it will be available for view again. It's stinks because I scanned all 252 cards too. Such as life.

Be well,
Mike

JeffVN · July 22, 2003 6:50AM

I have several sets hidden.

The short answer is to not let my direct card competitors know which cards I need. I don't really like doing it, but it has saved me considerable $$$ so far - so I'll keep it going until I finish the sets then I open them up to viewing and add pictures for most of the cards.

gtbeaker · July 23, 2003 2:32AM

Jeff-

I can understand your point, at least to a certain degree. I'm sure I could have acquired alot of my cards for cheaper prices if I had kept some of my player sets hidden. But, that's all part of the game! I'm glad you didn't have your Bench player sets hidden...otherwise I wouldn't have known (for sure) you needed that 1973 Bench PSA 9 I just sold you!

Scott

JeffVN · July 23, 2003 10:49PM

And I appreciate that you did. It sits nicely in my set.

Why hide details of a registered set?

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