What grade would you give your "personal favorite" All-Time Baseball Team???

carkim · April 9, 2003 10:13AM

Today I was thinking of my All-Time Baseball Team and jotted it down on a piece of paper. They are:

OF- Babe Ruth
OF- Hank Aaron
OF- Roberto Clemente
1B- Lou Gehrig
2B- Joe Morgan
SS- Ernie Banks
3B- Mike Schmidt
C- Johnny Bench
P- Sandy Koufax
DH- Andre Thorton

Then I thought to myself, “If I could get each one of these players rookie cards PSA graded, that would be awesome.” Well of course I would want each of them in a PSA 10 GEM MINT!!!! But that would be too easy, so I added a little twist. Of the ten players that I listed above I could only get 1 PSA 10, 1 PSA 9, 1 PSA 8, and so on…

I was surprised how many times I changed my PSA 10, 9, 8, and 7 cards. Try this out for yourself and see how easy/hard it really is. Here is my list.

OF- Babe Ruth……………………………PSA 9
OF- Hank Aaron…………………………PSA 5
OF- Roberto Clemente………………PSA 6
1B- Lou Gehrig……………………………PSA 7
2B- Joe Morgan…………………………PSA 2
SS- Ernie Banks…………………………PSA 10
3B- Mike Schmidt………………………PSA 3
C- Johnny Bench………………………PSA 4
P- Sandy Koufax………………………PSA 8
DH- Andre Thorton……………………PSA 1

AlanAllen · April 9, 2003 10:16AM

Great team, but you need some more power in that lineup

Maybe have Ruth at P and Mays can replace him in the OF.

Joe

carkim · April 9, 2003 10:17AM

I was going to put Mantle in the OF and Ruth at P, but Mays is Awesome as well.

mcastaldi · April 9, 2003 10:37AM

OK. . .here's. . .Mike's All-Polyester Team. . .
To qualify, a player must have played in the 1970s at some point.

OF - Mays (PSA10)
OF - Aaron (PSA 9)
OF - Rose (PSA5)
3B - Schmidt (PSA6)
SS - Banks (PSA7)
2B - Morgan (PSA2)
1B - Murray (PSA3)
C - Bench (PSA4)
P - Gibson (PSA8)
DH - Hal McRae (PSA1)

shockman · April 9, 2003 11:00AM

ydsotter · April 9, 2003 11:04AM

OF - Willie Mays 8
OF - Reggie Jackson 3
OF - Ted Williams 10
3B - Brooks Robinson 2
SS - Ernie Banks 7
2B - Wille Randolf 4
1B - Carl Yastrzemski 6
C - Thurman Munson 5
P - Bob Gibson 9
DH - Darryl Strawberry (that's right) 1

mohiba · April 9, 2003 11:33AM

Musial (OF) PSA 5
Williams (OF) PSA 8
Mantle (OF) PSA 7
Aaron (DH) PSA 2
Grehrig (1B) PSA 9
Rose (3B) PSA 3
Hornsby (2B) PSA 4
Banks (SS) RAW
Berra (C) PSA 1
Ruth (Left P) PSA 10
Ryan (Right P) PSA 6
Stengel (MGR) RAW

I cheated a little and added a couple of extras.

downgoesfrazier · April 9, 2003 1:37PM

OF- Oddibe McDowell (6)
OF- "Tarzan" Joe Wallis (1)
OF- Razor Shines (10)
3B- Carmen Fanzone (5)
SS- Buddy Biancalana (9)
2B- Skeeter Barnes (3)
1B- Steve Balboni (4)
C - Doug Gwosdz (8)
SP- Juan Eichelberger (2)
DH- Barbaro Garbey (7)

Wabittwax · April 9, 2003 1:39PM

As much as you guys love the vintage stuff, you have to put Barry Bonds in the outfield. Bonds is a jerk and I don't like him but he's arguably the best player ever.

downgoesfrazier · April 9, 2003 1:51PM

Yeah, but he's no Oddibe...

mohiba · April 9, 2003 4:03PM

Frazier, looks like you have the All-Time Name team there, but players.....wow. I have got to throw in a Boots Day into the fray. Wab, if Bonds wasn't chemically enhanced aka, roidin, he would not have had the kind of numbers he's had for the past 2-3 seasons. No way Bonds makes it in the top 5 in the OF. Those would have to be, not necessarily in this order....Mays, Mantle, Musial, Williams, Ruth (if not pitching of course), Cobb. If he was playing when stadiums didn't resemble cracker jack boxes, pitchers who would normally be minors, and technology improvements (ie. bats, body armor) his numbers would be no where near those of the past couple of years. Not to mention his purchases from the friendly neighborhood pharmacy.

Wabittwax · April 10, 2003 1:58AM

I think most of your guys choices are biased to older players. Most of the names you guys are throwing around are people who played 30-80 years ago. Are you saying that the talent of baseball players is diminishing over time? I think most of you just like to relive your childhood too much and don't realize that talent is increasing over time. I'd take Bonds over Ruth any day of the week. Ruth played in a day when it was still a game. People played more for the love of it and really didn't need to go to extreme measures to excel. I'm sure many gave 100% back then, but many didn't, including pitchers who pitched to these "great" hitters. Today's players are pushed to unbelievable extremes to succeed and those who shine in today's spotlight are living, eating, and breathing baseball. I'm sure the roids help a little but I think the talent, from the pitchers on down to the hitters, is superior in today's game.

qualitycards · April 10, 2003 2:09AM

D.G.F. - What!!! No Bombo Riviera or Shooty Babbit??? At least make them honorary bat boys...jay

downgoesfrazier · April 10, 2003 2:50AM

Ahhhhhhhhhh! Bombo & Shooty...my bad! They absolutely must make the team photo. Maybe Bombo could be equipment manager. We could say..."Need a new weapon--go see 'Bombo'"...sounds good.

GATOR5 · April 10, 2003 3:50AM

Hahaha, Oh bombo in action. Phil and Jay just for you.

Gator

downgoesfrazier · April 10, 2003 5:35AM

Matt,
Your pic isn't working...c'mon I need Bombo...BOMBO!, BOMBO!, BOMBO!...
dgf

tschaef · April 10, 2003 7:21AM

It seems to me that most anyone's list of all time teams usually includes players from previous eras and normally not many modern-day players. Reasons given are smaller parks, watered-down pitching, roids etc..... Come on guys although some of those arguments hold water I have seen old film of Babe Ruth and such players, they look slower, weaker, etc... then the modern player. Today's players are simply bigger, faster, and stronger than the old time players. I don't really care if its roids, better diet, or better workout regimes, it is still a fact. As far as watered down pitching, I wonder how many pitcher in the major leagues consistently threw the ball 90- 95 mph in the 1920's. I am sure you could count them on one hand if there were even that many. How many times did Babe Ruth homer in the ninth inning off a tired starter he was seeing for the 4th or 5th time? That rarely happens these days. Bonds and other modern day players are seeing 100mph fastballs and wicked splitters in the ninth. It seems to me the modern player just doesn't get enough credit. I guess you can tell by my post that I think Bonds is probably the best player of all-time, but I think in ten years my mind will change and I would have to guess I would say AROD.

AlanAllen · April 10, 2003 8:14AM

That's really an interesting argument, and one that I think will go on forever with no "right" answer: Do you judge a player by absolute standards, or by the standards of his era?

I tend to fall on the "standards of his era" side of the fence. I look at it like this, if they had the nutrional supplements and knowledge of the human body in the 1920's that they have today, not only would the Babe have taken advantage of them, but all of his opponents would have as well. He dominated on an even playing field like no other player before or since, and I don't believe that would have changed if ALL players back then had the access that players have now - he'd still be on an even playing field. Similarly, if Barry Bonds had been born in 1895, he would not be the physical specimin he is today. Ignoring for a moment the shameful fact that he would have been ineligible to play in the major leagues, how would he have compared back then to the Babe?

I can see the other side of the argument. If you compared Barry Bonds of 2002 to Babe Ruth of 1927, Barry is faster, hits harder, and faces tougher pitchers. But I don't think that comparison is valid because it's simply a not a level playing field.

My two cents,
Joe

1954 · April 10, 2003 8:29AM

of- Mays, Ruth, Williams
Dh- Cobb
1b Gehrig
2b Collins
ss ARod
3b Mike Schmidt
C Johnny Bench
P Nolan Ryan
RP Eckersley

Manager- Connie Mack
Great thread Carkim

1954

mohiba · April 10, 2003 9:19AM

I guess I started this sidebar so I need to defend my position. tschaef and Wabittwax, you both have some valid points, but lets look at this objectively.

<< Ruth played in a day when it was still a game. People played more for the love of it and really didn't need to go to extreme measures to excel. I'm sure many gave 100% back then, but many didn't, including pitchers who pitched to these "great" hitters. >>

I would argue, they had to go to extreme measures simply because they had to feed their families. Those guys would play their guts out to stay on the team, otherwise they were going to have to go to work in a coal mine or a farm, etc. Certainly not like today in the age of guaranteed contracts, signing bonuses, commercials, shoe/glove contracts, and dare I say it....baseball card contracts. I don't begrudge anyone for trying to make money, but if players today have a bad streak or bad year, well its nothing to worry about, they get the money. Players then, they may go 3 for 5 for a week and then go 1 for 5 for a week and find themselves out of a job.

<< Today's players are pushed to unbelievable extremes to succeed and those who shine in today's spotlight are living, eating, and breathing baseball. >>

I think this statement holds true for any era. I do not buy into the notion today's players are living, eating, and breathing baseball. Its a means to an end, plain and simple. They are more interested in living, eating, and breathing the baseball lifestyle. Sure you have some players who absolutely love the game and would do it for nothing, overall the vast majority that would fit into this category would have been back in the early days when baseball was really all they had in life, besides maybe a family. They didn't have Sportscenter or finding out who the Miller Lite "fighting" girls were, they had baseball.

<< Come on guys although some of those arguments hold water I have seen old film of Babe Ruth and such players, they look slower, weaker, etc... then the modern player. Today's players are simply bigger, faster, and stronger than the old time players. I don't really care if its roids, better diet, or better workout regimes, it is still a fact. >>

Babe Ruth, obviously not the swiftest of foot, but I would match his strength up against anyone who has ever played. You could put Mantle, Mays, Gehrig, Kluszewski and Greenberg in that category. These were large individuals, I have seen pictures of Gehrig in springtraining in short sleeves, the man had some guns. Take a look at any baseball card with The Big Klew on it, the guy looks like he could pick up the back end of a motor home. When Mantle first came up, no one could believe how fast he was. Cobb has alwyas been said to be sneaky quick,. From everything I have read about Honus Wagner, the guy looked awkward (bowlegged), but it always mentions how he could motor. Sure, you could make a case for today's strength, ie. McGwire, Arod or today's speed, ie. Ichiro, Henderson, but the top players from any era would match up favorably.

<< I wonder how many pitcher in the major leagues consistently threw the ball 90- 95 mph in the 1920's. I am sure you could count them on one hand if there were even that many. >>

Probably just about as many as throw in the 90-100 mph range as today. The avg. major league fastball is around 86-87 mph. If I recall correctly, that was stated last year during a Fox game of the week. Don't know what it was in the teens, 20's, or 30's, but guys like Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Rube Waddell, Lefty Grove, Dazzy Vance, Dizzy Dean all come to mind as being able to serve up the cheddar. Come to think of it, one the most successful pitchers today could not break 86 if he had a wind behind his back, which is of course Maddux.

<< How many times did Babe Ruth homer in the ninth inning off a tired starter he was seeing for the 4th or 5th time? That rarely happens these days. Bonds and other modern day players are seeing 100mph fastballs and wicked splitters in the ninth. >>

I would say those front line starters back then would be every bit as effective the 4th or 5th time around as practically the entire relief staff of the St. Louis Cardinals is today. How many times How many times does Bonds face a spitball (legally)?

<< It seems to me the modern player just doesn't get enough credit. >>

They get too much credit. Players of yesteryear didn't travel on charter flights, didn't have people to carry their luggage to and from their rooms, didn't have a full complement of medical staff to take care of a stuffy nose.

<< I guess you can tell by my post that I think Bonds is probably the best player of all-time >>

Maybe in the top 10, but not in the top 5.

This has been the arguement for just about as long as baseball has been around. Your certainly entitled to your opinion, but its real easy just to think about those who you hear Chris Berman yelling "back...back...back...gone".

Sorry for such a long response, had a lot of time to kill. Edit for spelling.

downgoesfrazier · April 10, 2003 9:24AM

Mohiba,
Who is the only player in history to hit 40+ homers and strikeout 40- times in a season three times?

mohiba · April 10, 2003 9:24AM

Yes.....Carlos, GREAT thread! Always fun to debate a little. By the way, before you think I'm some 90 year old bitter man, I'm 34 and a huge baseball history fan.

mohiba · April 10, 2003 10:15AM

Fraz.........you wouldn't be refering to the Big Klew himself, would you?

carkim · April 10, 2003 12:07PM

Here's my all 80's Team

OF Eric Davis
OF Kirby Puckett
OF Dale Murphy
1B Pete Rose (Just beating out Mark McGwire)
2B Lou Whitaker
SS Cal Ripken
3B Wade Boggs
C Carlton Fisk
P Dwight Gooden
DH Jose Canseco

mcastaldi · April 10, 2003 12:33PM

DGF> OK. . .here's one for you (or anyone else). . .who's the only pitcher with 3000 career strikeouts AND less than 1000 career walks?

Mike

mohiba · April 10, 2003 12:41PM

mcastaldi, sounds like your talking about Fergie.

mcastaldi · April 10, 2003 12:49PM

Indeed. . .tho shame on you if you read it in the Trib earlier this week (like I did)

Mike

mohiba · April 10, 2003 2:19PM

No Mike, live here in St. Louis, don't get the Trib. Baseball is like religion here, I remember one of the very first conversations I ever had with my grandfather was him telling me all about Pepper Martin, stories about the old St. Louis Browns (aka Orioles), telling stories about Babe Ruth coming to town. Right then I loved baseball, no other sport has the history and tradition.

Here's my 80's team
1B - Murray
2B - Sandberg
SS - O. Smith
3B - Schmidt
C - Carter
OF - Gwynn
OF - Henderson
OF - Winfield
DH - Baines
P - Clemens (R)
P - Carlton (L)

Now for the trivia:
Who is the only manager to take 4 different teams to the post season?

McAdoo · April 10, 2003 2:33PM

Is it that little rascal Billy Martin?

mohiba · April 10, 2003 2:40PM

LMAO, you have got to be kiddin me...............I thought there was no way someone would get that. Outstanding Mac!!!!

What grade would you give your &quot;personal favorite&quot; All-Time Baseball Team???

Comments

What grade would you give your "personal favorite" All-Time Baseball Team???