1956 Topps baseball set for sale...#2 on registry

Scoop · March 13, 2003 5:11PM

Well, this is Don's second attempt to sell this set on ebay. This time with no reserve. If this set goes for minimum, it does not bode well for vintage set collectors. If the figure of his investment is correct ($80,000), and I think it is pretty close, then he is taking a pretty large hit.

1956 set - rated 8.15

I also heard that Tim Shine, who has #3 set is also considering selling. If both sets get sold and broken up, there will be bargains aplenty for PSA 8 commons. The stars are already below SMR, and PSA 9's will be unaffected.

CDC4 · March 13, 2003 9:43PM

I wish Don the best with the selling of his set, I'm sure that he has put just as much sweat into putting this set together as he did money Good luck selling the set.....I wish I had an extra 50 or 60K lying around to buy it

mikeschmidt · March 13, 2003 9:59PM

At some point -- I wonder if this is the best forum and way for him to sell his set. Given the high rating and investment -- I can think of at least two or three individuals who might seriously entertain an offer of purchasing the full set directly and outright. I wonder if Don considered those avenues before listing the set on Ebay.

Also -- his description is not the most clear and easy thing to read in the world. I think the people who have this kind of money to spend on a set are not necessarily looking through Ebay to spend this sort of money...

acowa · March 13, 2003 10:19PM

Sometimes you have to sell the set the way you bought it...piece by piece. Everyone will watch graded set sales and have a "Sky is falling" attitude. If you put a set together with a spare no expense attitude and sell the set with a whatever EBAY happens to be in the mood for on a particular week (or two) approach...it's a recipe for potential disaster.

I spoke to Joe T. from Set Builders about building sets just last week. I think many people have the "dog chasing a car" syndrome after completing their sets. After the chase is over, many people wonder what to do after they catch the car.

Hopefully, EBAY won't be the only winner on this set when the auction closes.

Regards,

Alan

JeffVN · March 13, 2003 10:46PM

Best of luck selling the set. I tend to agree that selling sets in one large block is not the way to maximize revenues. But, there are occcassions when you simply want to move the Set and are willing to take the $$$ hit.

Tipem · March 13, 2003 11:23PM

Actually,this is the 3rd listing for Don with his set.I e-mailed him the other day and suggested that he look to Superior or Mastro to move his set.I feel that there are more big money guys there than on E-Bay.As a 56 set builder,I have been watching the registry closely and don't particularily like the trend.

Carl Albero(duke of mint) just recently broke up his set and seems to be doing okay but I don't think that he is setting any records.PSA 9's are dropping as of the most recent prices on E-Bay and as Scoop stated,"there will be bargains aplenty".While this is good for the buying end,One can only wonder about the long term effect.56's have been sought after more historically than any of the 50's with the exception of 52's.I too wish both sellers,(if that is the case)the best of luck.

Vic

Vargha · March 14, 2003 1:04AM

What's SMR on a straight 8 set and what have 8's been selling for in relation to SMR recently?

Bingo33 · March 14, 2003 1:11AM

I do not agree. I think ebay is the best way to sell the set. Remember, when you see an item sell for 115 in a Mastro auction, the owner/consignor of that itrem only gets a percentage of the sell price at 100. The hammer fee goes to the house along with a sellers fee! As consignor of that item you would end up with 85.00!

And unless Don breaks up the set, that set would most likely end up in a dealers hand.

Scoop · March 14, 2003 1:31AM

V, SMR on a strait 8 set is just under $37,000.

Higher pop commons (40+) in all series are going for between 75% to 90% SMR.

Lower pop commons are more volitile and depend on bidding wars. Those with pops in mid to upper 30's (approx. 40 cards) have gone anywhere from SMR to 5x SMR. And the 6 to 8 lowest pops of mid 20's to low 30's have gone as high as 10x SMR.

The semi-star and team cards are at around 90% to full SMR.

The stars can be obtained for as low as 75% (for the highest ticketed ones, e.g. Mantle, Williams, Mays, Clemente, Aaron), to just below SMR (for lower ticketed, e.g. Berra, Ford, J. Robinson, Reese).

Add maybe 5 to 10% premium for centering as you near 50/50.

Scoop · March 14, 2003 1:43AM

Also, for those who think auction house is way to go, here is a link to current lot in Andy Madec auction. This lot has 155 PSA 8's with some low pop commons and some stars, semis.

Andy Madec lot #88

With less than a week to go it is only at about 60% SMR.

Tipem · March 14, 2003 1:43AM

Bingo,

Do you not think that there are more high dollar buyers participating in the Superior and Mastro auctions than E-Bay?

Vic

Vargha · March 14, 2003 2:05AM

If straight-8 SMR is just $37K, it probably won't get any bidders at $50K. I would be willing to take the risk on a set that sells for a decent price and go through the "hassle" of breaking it up. However, even at $50K, one might not break even on such a scenario.

Bingo33 · March 14, 2003 2:30AM

Vic

I would take ebays mailing list for vintage cards over Mastro's (Or any hobby dealer). I follow ebay as close as most and the Merkels, Fogels, Branca's... are all on ebay. Are they with these other auction houses? More than likely yes. But it is more likely that they bid on ebay as opposed to bidding on a Superior or Mastro type auction for example.

Keep in mind, like all of us, I am sure some of these guys have had falling outs with certain dealers and do not partcipate in their auctions. On ebay, you may choose not to bid on an item because it is offered by a certain dealeer but you never boycott ebay because of that dealer.

Mastro's last auction, the center piece 52 set went for far less then anticipated. I would bet my life that if it was sold on ebay by the seller, he would have put more money in his pocket. An d a far greater amount if he had broken the set.

brucemo · March 14, 2003 2:35AM

I can't believe this is the best way to sell a set.

There are people collecting the set, and they may go crazy over the low-pops, but they won't buy a whole set to get the low-pops. If they are at the point where they are going crazy over low-pops, they already *have* almost the whole set.

A dealer who wants to break the set will look at this and say, gee, in order to break even, I *have* to predict that people are going to go crazy over the low-pops. If he gets only a minimum level of craziness, he'll lose tens of thousands of dollars.

Buyers collect the set and sellers break it. I think that the best way to sell this is a set break.

bruce

Basilone · March 14, 2003 2:42AM

<< <i>I do not agree. I think ebay is the best way to sell the set. Remember, when you see an item sell for 115 in a Mastro auction, the owner/consignor of that itrem only gets a percentage of the sell price at 100. The hammer fee goes to the house along with a sellers fee! As consignor of that item you would end up with 85.00! >>

Bingo is right on the money!

The extra money that the set MAY sell for would go right in Mastro's pocket...not the sellers. Most of the big guns are on eBay already...and if they arent....there are a slew of their buyers/dealers out there that will notify them immediatly. These guys get calls all the time regarding high ticket items. Believe me...the guys that would pony up money for this set have been notified. There are dealers out there who have already contacted their clients or are looking for a group to chip in together and split the thing up. The clients would get the cards they need....the dealer would get inventory to resell piece by piece (which keeps the dealers investment to a minimum).

Plus...with eBay...you may get a rogue bidder who has no idea who the heck Bill Mastro is. He may be an wealthy individual who was born in 1956 or remembers collecting them as a kid. For kicks he my search for his birth year once in a while.

Is this auction in the big ticket section? A couple of guys I know that have some bank...just look at that category just to see whats out there.

John

JeffVN · March 14, 2003 2:43AM

Bruce hits the nail on the head. Unless you can seriously capitalize on the the low pop cards, buying this set to break it up of even to use it to upgrade a current set is a guaranteed $$$ loser.

JH · March 14, 2003 3:08AM

A very interesting topic. It's one I have been thinking about quite often lately. I have to beleive that on a high $$$ set like this the first step would be to try to shop it around to some of the premier collector at close to what you paid for it. The next step would be to put it on eBay for close to what you paid and hope for a bite.... Absent sales in either of those venues I think you would have to break it up and sell it off in pieces. To put it up on eBay at a 30%+ loss is taking a big hit, and it still might not sell this way. As has already been stated, most collectors looking to upgrade their sets aren't going to want to endure the overhead of purchasing the entire set. Most dealer, even at the price it's at are not likely to risk the investment without an expectation of a fairly strong return on investment.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, because the upgrading of my set has slowed to about 2 cards per week, and I'm sure within the year it will slow down to a crawl. I enjoy the chase more than the set, so I will get anxious and want to switch to a new project. If I do choose to sell, I expect to encounter these same situations. I see no easy solution. But as long as I get the enjoyment of out building the set, and my losses are not too great, I'm sure the cycle will continue.

BugOnTheRug · March 14, 2003 3:11AM

FYI,
Tim S. is selling some 1956 7's and 8's, but he's also buying the 9's. Gunning for Marshall?
BOTR

Scoop · March 14, 2003 3:25AM

The $37,000 is SMR for a strait 8 set. Remember, Don has 55 PSA 9's and 2 PSA 10's in this set which alone would bring an additional $30,000.

If I were selling, I would offer the PSA 9's and 10's to the top set-builders including possibly getting the replacement PSA 8's with the idea of listing a strait 8 set. If not enough takers for the 9's, I would list those and the low-pops separately on ebay and the rest in a lot, either through Superior, Maestro, Andy Madec, or Sportcards Plus. Or list the lot on ebay (approx. 280 cards).

jerster · March 14, 2003 5:37AM

Hate to see the listing fee on that baby...

mikeschmidt · March 14, 2003 5:51AM

Sometimes when you are at the or close to the top -- opportunities like these are very few and far between. Crunching the numbers can be a nightmare at times -- but making it work for you in the end is key.

On a mainstream 1950s baseball set -- recently the #2 finest known set sold out to the owner of the #1 finest known set for a very significant sum of money. For reference purposes -- the #1 finest set eclipsed David Hall's best effort by a few dozen upgrades. After the consolidation of the remaining #1 and #2 sets, the owner of the #1 set was able to acquire nearly 50 upgrades in his set -- a significant number of them being 1/1 PSA 9's and/or PSA 10's. To truly put a price tag on an opportunity like that is very, very difficult. At the end of the day -- if you are a) recouping your money and then some on the "extras" and b) able to acquire your upgrades for less than you would be willing to bid on ebay -- at the end of the day, you come out ahead.

In my humble opinion, of course....

brucemo · March 14, 2003 6:45AM

Responding to a post on the previous page:

For some reason, people think that the listing fee is a percentage of the opening bid. It's not. The listing fee on this was $3.30.

bruce

pc · March 14, 2003 10:16AM

where is rockets-lover when you (really) need him?!?...

Bingo33 · March 15, 2003 2:30AM

And there is no way possible that he paid/cost 80K for that set.

In today's market he would be doing well to get 50-60K for that set. If the set is cosigned to Mastro or Superior (any auction house) I think he would end up with 35-45K in his pocket.

Scoop · March 15, 2003 9:36PM

I agree with your figure as to what he will net at a major auction. He probably has had quite a few offers/negotiations with Chris at Superior and others. That is why he is listing at this starting price with no reserve.

As to what he paid, I know for a fact that it is closer to $80,000 than to the offered price since I have followed ebay auctions on 1956 PSA 8's and higher since finishing my set. I also know of some side deals like with Jeff Rosen when Jeff broke up his set he sold 5 PSA 9's to Don for over $6500. plus the replacement 8's which was another $1000. SMR.

1956 Topps baseball set for sale...#2 on registry

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