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Trade Dollars with hairlines galore, yet they still straight grade?
ArmantheDobe
Posts: 21 ✭
in Q & A Forum
Howdy!
From my discussion title, probably obvious I am inexperienced with grading. I have noticed that older coins, and in particular Trade Dollars with AU or better grades, get their grades despite the amount of hairlines obvious from a picture, without magnification other than what a camera provides.
Why is this ignoring of hairlines allowed for an 1870’s Trade Dollar, but not for various Morgans, Peace or Walking Liberty coins?
Thanks for any member insights.
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I disagree with the premise of your question. Can you post an example or two to support your premise?
There could be very light hairlines that are overlooked (on purpose or by poor grading), they could be more apparent due to PL surfaces, they could be planchet striations, could be poor lighting/photography enhancing issues that aren't obvious in hand, etc.
However, to just say that "hairlines are ignored for trade dollars" is false.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Trade dollars aren’t alone in this regard. The example attached is one that I bid on, after looking at the Great Photo slide on the current Great Collections auction. The slide shows both sides of the coin. In the Great Photo slide, hairlines are not noticeable.
In the attached two clear slab pics, tell me if I am imagining the hairlines, especially on the Obverse. You may want to blow the image up to see the existence of the hairlines.
If I send a raw coin in to any grading company with hairlines like this, I get Details-Cleaned every time.
I tend to believe that TPG’s give a lot of leeway on the older silver coins, but especially the trade dollars.
Good photography can hide some ills. This is the slide that I made my bid from. I didn’t notice any obvious hairlines in this nice pic.
Did you lot view this? The auction is still ongoing so unless you are in SoCal and drove to the GC offices, it's hard to take your assessment at full value. https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/2206990/1877-S-Trade-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-AU-50
That being said, I agree that this coin has an old cleaning. There is a reason it doesn't have a CAC sticker.
Couple of other important points though.
-It's a circulated coin and some of the lines are from circulation rather than a wipe like you would see on an uncirculated Morgan.
-The T$ has a fairly open field which may show some lines more clearly than other types.
-The coin was graded ~23yrs ago during a period of rampant gradeflation.
-The coin was likely net graded from AU53 to AU50 due to the old cleaning rather than given a details grade. This was common at the time and still happens on occasion.
-To make broad sweeping generalizations based on your anecdotal experience and limited exposure to a certain type is not particularly well reasoned
For a very common date with a poor strike and dubious surfaces, I agree that there will be better candidates. However, you should take very few implications about this coin to basically any other coin you may bid on. Just be sure to look closely and buy the coin, not the holder.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I live in North Carolina, so viewing any of these coins on the auction site isn’t feasible.
I really don’t care why a TPG allows hairlined coins to be straight graded, whether 20 years ago, or now. Their purpose is to bring consistency to this market, and changing rules at whim is one of the reasons people walk away and go to another company. Too big to fail. Maybe, but lots of companies lose their way with slip-shod rule enforcement.
My broad sweeping generalization comes from seeing PCGS, NGC and ANACS allow old, especially prior to 1900 get waived thru to a straight grade, when a modern coin, particularly Walkers and Peace dollars, will garner a Details. CAC doesn’t seem to do this, in the samples that I have sent them and viewed.
Sorry if my beliefs cross wires with yours.
It's not that your "beliefs cross wires with mine". It's that the situation is more nuanced and complex than you seem to understand. And your frank unwillingness to view the situation as anything other than black or white is why you have such an erroneous understanding of coin grading as it currently exists.
I dislike the vast majority of net grading; problem coins should be in details holders, regardless of the grading company. Mistakes (including many serious mistakes) have been made and will be made again. But to state that PCGS/NGC/ANACS routinely grade hairlined coins as problem free coins as a matter of policy is just not true.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I hope you are correct.