BBCE FASC question.
Yankees70
Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭✭✭
If a BBCE FASC box has a small stain on the back of the box that appears to be on the BBCE label, does it reduce the value of the box? For the purpose of this example let's say its a 1981 to 1985 Topps Baseball Wax box. If the box looks nice but there's a small stain on the back of the BBCE packaging -about the size of a quarter - would it reduce the price and desirability of the item and if so how much?
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Comments
Personally, I don't think a small stain impacts price too much. FASC doens't mean the box is in mint condition. I just had 20 boxes of 1989 donruss wrapped FASC, and 4 of them had indents like this: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ejEAAeSwgH9pswxh/s-l1600.webp
If you tried to sell them would they sell as quick and for the same price as a box with no problems?
Personally I wouldn't mind it. As long as the box seems intact I'm ok with it. That donruss picture above with the tear might make me look for another one though. 🤣
I charged about $5-$10 cheaper than a mint box, and two of them sold. I guess it depends on what the intention of the buyer is. Some may buy FASC just to rip, of which any surface condition issues on box shouldn't matter. I buy FASC for long term preservation, so condition does matter a bit to me, although a small stain on the back shoudn't be much of an issue.
I wouldn't worry about it. The demand for unopened material is slaughtering the available supply. Your box is as valuable as any other in the current marketplace. By tomorrow, probably more.
Hi is your comment about my specific question or a general comment about BBCE not accepting new boxes for certification?
It will matter to some pickier collectors but probably not in any measurable way to impact overall value.
Steve is pausing authenticating temporarily for BBCE as of this Friday. The amount of product they are getting is overwhelming.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
When this knowledge becomes widely available, I'd guess there will be more non-authenticated product coming out soon. Considering the timing of this, it may be getting close to the National before they resume the service. When they include the word "burnout" in their explanation, that seems rather serious. The demands on them must be insane right now.
Oh man I was just gonna send in a case of gi Joe
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
If submissions for BBCE authentication are that strong right now, I think this would be the time for Steve to significantly increase the price for such service. this would decrease submissions but would leave the service available for those willing to pay the increased cost.
at least that is what I would do.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think this might increase submissions for rvp for the meanwhile
Dang that’s too bad for Bbce! I did send out a package last Thursday which will be delivered today. Got lucky on that I guess. I bet you are right about the national as well. And I hope you are right. I still have other stuff I planned on sending him but will hold back and hopefully won’t open them myself. I find his authentication helps me not do something dumb and open it all.
It may very well be a quality of life issue for Steve...he may simply want a respite
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
that could be true. I have often thought he should stop authenticating packs for PSA and figure out a "holder" and just do it all in house for himself. He would have more control and I am certain he would make more money doing so. He could also better control the submissions with direct control over pricing and turnaround times.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
To add: I am not an unopened collector, so I have no skin in the game, but I enjoy seeing other collections and learning about it. I hate to see the authority on unopened either get overwhelmed or have so many submissions that his quality of life is potentially affected.
Steve is a monumental figure in the unopened side of the hobby. hopefully this is just a minor blip.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Personally, I would much rather he be able to just authenticate my packs and put them in cases, kind of like what he did for 1991 Desert Shield, instead of sending them to PSA. I personally care more about authentication and care less about a numerical grade. I would value that service greatly.
The poor guy did look overwhelmed on the Live at 5 yesterday. He deserves a break.
This would do more harm than good. It's not the price, it's the pressure. The amount of submissions being sent in to BBCE for authentication is way out of hand compared to the available manpower to assess them. How is Steve supposed to run a business if he's consumed by only one portion of it? I believe he's going to be adding the value of other opinions to his own going forward. If he has assistance in the management of an overwhelming task, maybe that will soften the amount of pressure being applied to his business as a whole. Sometimes success does take on the form of a consumptive monster.
Spoke to Steve and they are just slammed with product. It will take time to get what’s been submitted completed and most likely doesn’t want to make people wait several
months to get their items back. Basically a responsible response unlike PSA that has orders of mine 2 months past due date
It's rather inconceivable a little warehouse in Indiana has all the workload of authentication on their shoulders. It always amazed me all PSA graded wax packs go through them as well. You could say hire more and grow bigger but I have never thought of Steve in that light. I remember his little shop out of the suburbs and what it has become.
When I was collecting unopened boxes, I was one of the first people that were sending boxes to BBCE for authentication. A lot of people were buying wrapped boxes from them but very few people were sending them boxes to have wrapped. At the time, you could do a search on eBay for BBCE and only see 5 or 6 wrapped boxes show up.
Gold business card era stuff
it is exactly what PSA and other grading companies have done. there are to my knowledge, only 3 paths to clearing out a backlog.
1. you can stop submissions. that is what PSA and Beckett did during the beginning of covid. it was the least popular move amongst customers.
2. you can extend service times. also a very unpopular move, but more popular than stopping service entirely
3. you can raise prices. this effectively will stem the flow of submissions, yet still leave the option open for those few willing to pay the higher cost.
any move by steve will be unpopular. And i disagree, it is both price and pressure. a glut of submissions means that there is BOTH very high demand, and the price for service is too low. A rise in price, even temporarily, will stem submissions.
it is exactly what PSA did recently to stem the flow.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Except that PSA never stemmed the flow. They reservoired it. Then when it came time to release they got slammed even more. BBCE isn’t PSA. They’ll do what’s necessary to maintain their sanity.
I completely disagree about price being too low Increasing prices to Discourage business is BAD business, plain and simple!
Their issue is they need to expand to take on more work. However in their case it's not as simple recruiting new employees, BBCE would need a cloning machine to create more Steve's.
BBCE business model is not upward scalable they have hit the limit of what they can handle. Where they = 1 person Steve.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I wonder if they could train someone to handle the "less critical" items, leaving Steve for the more critical items. Although all boxes are important to those sending in, someone else could probably handle authenticating 1987 Topps baseball boxes.
His prices are too low though (imho) considering the upside in value once product is wrapped. And he doesn't charge if the item doesn't pass like PSA does.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
What about just accepting submissions every other month? That gives him a month to catchup
if people are buying all the widgets you can produce at $1, to the point that they are standing in line for months to purchase the next one available, your prices are too low and the market will bear a price increase. it is pretty common in many industries. it is called demand based/dynamic pricing. The demand for Steves service is exploding. it will support higher prices.
it is super simple. PSA has already set the examples for how to slow the flow of submissions. this is not new ground we are breaking. They adjust pricing somewhat frequently based on backlogs. when the backlog eases up, it is possible to lower prices to increase submissions. It seems to me that simply stopping submissions like they did during Covid was the least popular option for PSA.
Steve could train new authenticators. Authenticating Wax is a specialized skill, but lets not kid ourselves, this is not brain surgery or rocket science we are talking about here. I heard Ryan Hoge on a podcast recently and he mentioned that PSA's training program takes about 3 months for new hires to come online. BGS's program is about 6 months. Say Steve were to hire a few guys with experience in the field and it took him 6-9 months to train, by next year he could, in theory, have more capacity to scale.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It's time to hire grote15 fulltime. That would get the job done!
^ Love the 'dawg avatar gif
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
Grote is our board expert on unopened material…hire him, Steve!
This is the way.
I have long thought grote15 is perfectly suited for the authentication field.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I appreciate the kind words, guys! If authentication could be relegated to vintage unopened, I'd certainly be on board with an opportunity like that one but if it involves Pokemon or MTG, I get a headache just thinking about it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I'm sure Steve could make sure you only did vintage and some else did the other stuff.
I'm sure we're years away from this happening, but if Steve is truly the only one authenticating stuff, then what happens when he decides to retire? Surely he's not going to just close up shop.
Kurt Christensen or Tom Salem could be great alternatives.
Actually I don’t believe Steve looks at every single box. There are a couple of others there as well I believe.
Rick helps out also. Great guy.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I love Steve and BBCE, and the service that they provide to the unopened side of the hobby. I think that part of the problem is that because having your box "certified" by BBCE has clearly added value to every level of unopened product, submitters are sending in case after case of stuff that, quite frankly, just doesn't need to be wrapped. Stuff like 1989 Donruss and Bowman, 1987 Topps, etc. Steve is an expert, and expertise should be focused on the things that truly need to be authenticated. I could see him doing some things like the following to at least bring some sanity back to the process:
I think that some self-preservation steps like these might slow down the submissions, and allow Steve to focus his skills on stuff that requires expertise. He's a smart guy, and an incredibly friendly guy, who has only made our hobby better. I'm confident that he and his staff, who are also wonderful, will figure out what works for them moving forward. In the meantime, I hope that he gets some rest and is able to catch his breath.
kevin
People conflate acquisition of experience with expertise all the time. Given all of Steve’s high-profile failures and with my own experience with his low-profile failures I have to assume both that I’m not unique and Steve’s no expert. I say this only because I would hate someone new to the hobby to read a puff piece about Steve and think this guy is more than he really is and expect any form of meaningful guarantee from Steve. Steve is a moron.
I am not a Steve apologist - but I think he is an incredibly honorable guy who has always dealt fairly with his customers. We are lucky to have someone with integrity involved in the unopened business.
If you aren't a fan of BBCE and don't want to shop there, fine. Calling him pejorative names is uncalled for.
I respect your opinion but I have met and spoken with Steve many times and I’ve found him to be a fairly simple and stupid man who has demonstrated a lack of a proper understanding of logic or reason. I’m only offering my opinion on Steve. His poor results are public knowledge and in my experience he doesn’t stand behind his “product”. Moron isn’t a name here that I’m calling Steve. Moron is a word here that I’m using to describe how I see him. Foolish. Stupid. I admit that it’s pejorative, but why is that bad? I want to warn as many people as to the truth of the very subjective opinion of Steve, and while I continue to purchase from Steve, I do it with eyes wide open. This false outrage is such a boring endeavor.
You mentioned his low profile failures that you experienced. Care to share them?
I’ve shared a few in the past. I don’t feel the need to defend my opinion any more than his advocates feel the need to support theirs.
Here’s a side fact for you though as you seem to have predicted this would never happen. Feel free to continue to trust your own advice but frankly… you should look at your opinion with concern…. The WNBA was profitable last season. Oops. Eat it.
It's hard to go back and look when a lot of posts have been deleted.