Mattingly gets extra credit for injuries...but where is Nomar's?? Nomar is better than Ozzie S.
1948_Swell_Robinson
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In his prime Nomar could flat out hit....and as a SS.
Nomar's four year prime as a shortstop:
WAR 27.7
.337 BA/.386 OB%/.577 SLG%
.963 OPS. 142 OPS+
The following year at age 27 Nomar missed basically the whole year due to a wrist injury that required surgery. While he was still good afterwards, he wasn't the same.
Note that the OPS+ dings Nomar due to Fenway being a hitters park in those four years, but Nomar's road OPS was .968 in those years, so his benefit was not really seen from the park.
In the end:
WAR
Nomar 44.3
Mattingly 42.4
Plate Appearances
Nomar 6116
Mattingly 7722
Run Expectancy
Nomar 230
Mattingly 242
So it took Mattingly 1,606 MORE plate appearances than Nomar to still have a lower WAR and only lead by 12 runs in Run Expectancy.
I would take Nomar over Ozzie Smith any day of the week. Nomar could pick it defensively too. His defensive WAR is only giving him a modest 6 defensive runs. Ozzie getting 44 defensive runs.
Give Nomar the number of chances that the pitchers gave Ozzie and Nomar's assists would be out of the world too. In the end. .973 FP% for Nomar and .978 for Ozzie. Slight edge for Ozzie defensively, but certainly nowhere near the edge that the flawed defensive metrics are giving Ozzie. But, consider Ozzie fielded on tartificial turf and Nomar didn't that closes that gap more, if there even is a gap after considering that factor..
In the end for Nomar and Ozzie.
Run Expectancy:
Nomar 230 runs above average...achieved in 6,116 plate appearances....while having wrist surgery(and other injuries)
Ozzie 16 runs above average...achieved in 10,778 plate appearances...and he benefitted offensively from the artificial turf yet the stadium factor artificially boosted him. So that gap is WIDER.
So it took Ozzie Smith 4,659 MORE plate appearances than Nomar to achieve 214 LESS runs produced offensively. THERE IS NO FLAWED DEFENSIVE VALUE FROM THESE TWO SS THAT COULD ERASE THAT ENORMOUS GAP.
Nomar was a better baseball player than Ozzie Smith. Period.
Comments
More on Ozzie Smith and how the artificial turf actually helped him offensively. The metrics rated his home stadium as a pitchers park, so it adjusts his rate stats upwards, when really they should be adjusted downwards because he was NOT hurt by his home park. He was helped..
Ozzie was not as good as a baseball player as Nomar.
Look at Ozzie's grass/turf splits on stolen bases:
GRASS: 163 stolen baes with 66 CS for a .71 stolen base percentage.
Turf: 417 stolen bases with 87 CS for a .83 stolen base percentage.
The turf made it easier to steal percentage wise...but it also allowed him to run more totally:
Per 162 games he averaged 28 stolen bases a year on grass.
Per 162 games he averaged 44 stolen bases a year on turf.
Ozzie's run Expectancy above average accounts for his baserunning, not just the stolen baes, so it also helped him taking the extra base more often as well(which is also included in the Run Expectancy).
So in total
Run Expectancy:
Nomar 230 runs above average...achieved in 6,116 plate appearances.
Ozzie 16 runs above average...achieved in 10,778 plate appearances..
So it took Ozzie Smith 4,659 MORE plate appearances than Nomar to achieve 214 LESS runs produced offensively.
When you account for that turf benefit Ozzie received with just his baserunning then Ozzie is truly BELOW average with his career run expectancy.
The hitting on grass and turf. Now I know some will say that doesnt' affect hitting...and it probably doesn't for most...but for a slap hitting style like Ozzie I think it is fairly evident with the eyes and common sense that it does get more balls through.
Ozzie had a .617 OPS on grass and a .696 on the turf.
In a league neutral setting, Nomar Garciaparra is a better baseball player than Ozzie Smith.
Opinion, period.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
Nah.
Nomar definitely better but it’s easy to find players better than Ozzie.
Ozzie had 28 career home runs. Nomar had 30 home runs in his first full season. That alone of course doesn’t prove Nomar was better but it does tell us that when we start looking at all the other offensive stats that Nomar will dominate Ozzie.
Talking about slap hitters, I remember the Royals and the artificial turf, they always wanted Willie Wilson hitting the ball on the ground. Because he always had a chance to beat it out.
I think Nomar is one of a handful of examples of players who had "borderline" HOF careers, but they are overlooked because they started out as a lock out of the gates. The Trout effect.
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That is a factor too. But the injury factor is what really hurt him.
Nomar was a STUD!
He only played 6 full seasons, 2 most of the year seasons and 6 years where he played less than half the year, 5 of those he missed about 100 games per year.
Mattingly had 10 full seasons, then 3 where he averaged 97 games.
I think Nomar was the FAR superior player, but I think those 5 years where Nomar hardly played stuck in the minds of the voters.
Park factor seems to unfairly hurt him too. Doesn't seem fair that the left handed hitting Mattingly doesn't get punished for Yankee Stadium like Nomar as a righty gets KILLED for playing in Fenway.
Shortstops that can CRUSH the ball are rare!
Yeah, but Ozzie did the flips. Yeah, that explains the edge.😆
Great play on the Padres too, but really couldnt hit
Id take Nomar over him aside from the injuries
Fire AJ Preller
as a Boston guy, I can attest that Namah was a fantastic player. The wrist injury changed everything. including his attitude. for those first half a dozen seasons, there was no other SS i wanted at the time (well, maybe ARod was better, but I liked Nomah better!)
if he could have had 3 or 4 more fully healthy seasons i think he would already be in the Hall.
as far as Ozzie, yeah, Nomah was better. Ozzies great fielding cannot overcome the offense of Garciapara.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
F#%K AROD.
If one's claim to fame is that he was a better hitter than Ozzie Smith, then we're going to be seeing several hundred more of these threads.
With 6,000 plate appearances, Nomar makes an interesting footnote in MLB history. Ozzie, who was several orders of magnitude better than Nomar as a fielder, was an obvious Hall of Famer. Had Nomar had a real career, I might look at it differently, but he didn't, and I don't.
Why?
Arod, is a disgrace to himself as a juicer.
What did Nomar ever do?
Best six year(full year) prime for Ozzie and Nomar.
WAR
Nomar 39.6
Ozzie 37.3
OPS
Nomar .929
Ozzie .713
Pet 162 Games Runs scored
Nomar 120
Ozzie 82
Per 162 games RBI
Nomar 117
Ozzie 59
Ozzie's WAR is almost entirely achieved via the flawed defensive metrics. Knowing that Ozzie's fielding reserves on his same team's got to just as many balls as Ozzie did, then you can see that simply because Ozzie had more balls hit his way, doesn't mean he was THAT much superior than other SS.
Then add the fact that Ozzie benefitted from the turf offensively(even though the metrics give him a boost for his 'pitchers' park and it shouldn't), it really should knock that value down even more. SO actually with the park boost Ozzie is getting in his WAR his WAR should actually be closer to 30 in that prime stretch, because he should be getting detracted not added.
There is no amount of SS defense between these two that can overcome the vast offensive gap. Simply getting more balls hit your way doesn't mean you can erase that enormous offensive gap.
during the 2003 offseason, the Sox tried hard (and publicly) to acquire ARod. Nomah obviously took it as a slight that management preferred Arod over him at short. He became a malcontent and clubhouse cancer before the Sox eventually trading him during the summer. I really dont know if they would have won the series that year had they kept him. things were pretty bad in the clubhouse before the trade. He was also dealing with endless injuries and was a shell of his former self
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I had not heard that.
Being frustrated over the decline in his career and looking at being replaced would make anyone unhappy. Sounds like he handled it poorly.