Ohtani & Judge, Again!
1982FBWaxMemories
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Both deserving of their 2nd MVP in a row.
I have ZERO cards of those players but appreciate we are seeing 2 of the all-time bests play. The Judge voting was tighter than I expected. Seems we are getting spoiled at at amazing numbers...?
Is Judge now in conversation for one of the Top 10 All-Time Right-Handed hitters?
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
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I still say Ohtani is the best qualified to star in a baseball themed Space Jam ("Space Slam")...maybe I'm, eh, judging Mr. Judge wrong but he just comes off as too serious and businesslike to really fit in with the Looney Tunes.
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On Judge, not now. If he continues at this kind of pace at this age, which is completely abnormal, he will be on some kind of list. But now he has 368 HRs. So now, dont think that puts him on a list but his career is not over. He is going to be 34 in late April and plenty of guys see a dramatic decrease in production then, which could make even another 132 HRs challenging.
Lot of swing and miss in his game. Playoffs this year nice but prior to this year pretty bad. I dont think he deserves a label of great RH hitter for his career. The last few years sure. In his 20s he had about 2000 ABs and 158 HRs. Which is very pedestrian. Not remotely close to in the conversation for Hall of Famer. But in his 30s, off the charts outstanding numbers. Recency effect has a lot of people thinking he has always been awesome and his career has been awesome but its more just the last 4 years and his rookie year. The last 4 have been incredible enough that they make the career numbers look nicer and hide the non-overwhelming stats from his 20s. But there is a ways to go. A lot of players seen as incredible at the time did not do much from 34 on.
I think he belongs on a list of great power hitters. But pure hitter no. He is a much better pure hitter in his 30s and was not in his 20s. So he has a ways to go. We'll see. But would not put him on any great career hitters list yet. Winning MVPs is nice but Dale Murphy did that and it did not seem to help his case much in terms of being on a list of the best. He hit a wall right about where Judge is now so time will tell.
Judge appeared in a Paw Patrol spinoff and even had a card in the 2024 Topps Update, so he appears to be less buttoned up than you think.
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Cal Raleigh got screwed.
The MVP could have gone to Judge or Raleigh. One could make a good argument for both players and neither player would have been screwed if they finished second in the voting.
I think a few of the voters already had their minds made up. Judge won a popularity contest. Nothing wrong with that. The enormity of Raleigh's contributions to his team should have won him the MVP in a landslide, though. Just my opinion.
both are great players and deserved MVP. Amazing to see Ohtani win 4 out of 5 seasons unanimously
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Again, a player with so much love from the voters can't fail. Schwarbs could have hit 100 homers and still not won it. I don't argue the logic of that. Ohtani is above and beyond everyone.
Feasting on average to below average pitching during the regular season is a statistical boon. Hitting high quality pitching in the playoffs is a whole different story. He has a few years left to make himself memorable in October, not March through September.
As I tell my boys many times each year. We are watching something special. Very grateful to be along for the ride as a fan. One of my favorite cards so I had to get a second one.
His recent seasons have been prolific. Hope it continues. I am an offensive stat guy, and won’t bore anyone with them, but the margin between him and the rest of the AL this season in most was ridiculous. Soak it up Yanks fans! And congrats to Cal on a crazy season. I hope he continues to rake!
John
it just shows that being a catcher really means 0 might as well just be a DH.
the MVP voting is kinda like all star voting, most POPULAR player wins
The fact that Raleigh was a Catcher kept him in the conversation despite
the Great Divide in their offensive stats. So it weighed mightily. Otherwise I don’t think he would have had many first place votes at all. Think Kyle Schwarber.
Cal had an awesome season regardless and I hope he has more.
John
I cracked up at Ohtani's reaction to winning.....he kinda pseudo-hugged his wife, and kissed his dog.
Steve
The .247 BA hurt. Ditto great year for both Raleigh and Schwarber.
I'm not discounting the value of match-up issues a good switch hitter can provide, but when Judge is slashing .328/.446/.658 vs. RHP (418 ABs) and .341/.491/.789 vs. LHP (123 ABs) batting solely from the right side, at the end of the day, isn't someone who is absolutely mashing against all pitching even more valuable?
Raleigh was .231/.362/.547 vs. RHP (411 ABs) and .281/.351/.681 vs. LHP (185 ABs) by comparison.
I'd also hate for the MVP selection to be 100% WAR-driven and think there should be room to account for intangibles. But I think Raleigh needed some more in his base numbers to get him within range where the intangibles could have closed the rest of the gap. 5-7 more HRs and/or another 20 points in his batting avg. might have been enough this year. But without that, I think Judge's performance was too otherworldly for the swing voters to ignore this year.
P.S.
Raleigh had an incredible season but so did Judge. I would have agreed if there had been co-MVPs this season, but if Judge had not gotten at least a share of the MVP, I think it would have been firmly down to Judge fatigue, which would have been a shame. Can't fault the guy for his consistency at this level where he's putting up early 1930's like numbers.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
I think there have been a lot of widely voiced bad takes in the aftermath of the MVP announcement.
So many people have been saying that Raleigh was more valuable to his team. First of all, it's debatable whether that's even true between him and Judge (I'd say probably but not definitely). Second, that's not what the MVP is. And third, if that actually was the criteria, Jose Ramirez would have run off with the MVP as he was unarguably more valuable to the A.L. Central-winning Guardians than Judge or Raleigh were to their respective teams and the argument isn't even close!
Similarly, the "buh buh buh he's a catcher" argument only takes you so far. The comparison isn't whether Judge would be able to do better behind the plate but whether Cal's incremental value over an avg. catcher is more than Judge's incremental value over an avg. right fielder, in which case one truly realizes just how much of a numbers gap there actually was between the two.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
The stats between Judge and Raleigh aren't even really that close. Look at WAR and OPS. Judge was the clear winner.
Also, JRod having a very very good year takes a bit away from the Raleigh "was more valuable to his team" argument.
And I'm a Yankee hater.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
Just another data point for the discussion. I have no bias to either player or team.
The 2025 New York Yankees had a record of 90-62 with Aaron Judge in the lineup and a 4-6 record when he was not. This indicates a significant drop in performance without him, albeit a small base size.
The 2025 Seattle Mariners had a record of 88-71with Cal Raleigh in the lineup and a 2-1 record when he was not.
First of all, being a Yankees hater or lover doesn’t equate with logical thought. It never has. The point I will make about Raleigh is that during the most critical time of the season it seemed he was carrying the team almost every game. I wasn’t seeing the same accolades pouring out about Judge while the Yankees struggled to finish the season in first place and fell short. The MVP award should encompass a players entire body of work for that season. That’s why almost half the voters DID vote Cal first. Yes, Judge was “Most Valuable Offensive Player”, that really can’t be argued. That’s where the numbers discussion belongs. But, Cal was the best all-around player to his team, the mountaintop. His teammates were adequate, but they would have been nowhere without him.
Jose Ramirez was actually the best all-around player to his team, the mountaintop. Regular Season only of course!
Judge's September was the reason the Yankees tied Toronto's record.
IMHO a when 2 players put up Historic type numbers there should be a choice in the ballot for pick any 2 players as equal
1st place votes.
It would have worked nice in 2025 AL, 1961 AL and 1941 AL to name a few.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
there have been co-mvps in the NFL: Favre and Sanders in 97 and Manning/Mcnair in 03
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.