With Beckett picking up a little steam lately..
olb31
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is it a smart move to start plucking some of the BVG cards from EBAY? Prices are relatively cheap in comparison with PSA. What are your thoughts?
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Gotta look real close for those flaws which get downgraded by PSA. That being said, I’ve had good success buying BVG cards in the past and then cracking them to remove a beautiful raw card for my collection.
I have always liked BVG/BGS. along with SGC and PSA.
I think all three do a good job grading.
not as much experience with the other new companies.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Just sent a bvg 8 Erving to PSA for crossover. So I’ll have one data point soon. lol
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I agree. I make sure that I examine the card. If it's centered that helps a lot. Just picked up a bvg 8 1968 Rose on EBAY for $400 and an SGC 8 for $475. Both looked pretty decent to me. Only 2 PSA 8's for sale both $1,000 or more and both these looked much better at least for centering purposes.
Since Beckett has the best slabs in the business, I never crack.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
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I agree, BGS slabs are solid.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Almost bulletproof. It takes some serious machinations to get 'em open.
The risk with buying a BVG card or 80s or earlier BGS BVG card with the goal of a crossover is an absolute ton of them are sheet cut. Because it was allowed by Beckett for so so long. They would go through periods of discouragement but they would not say they would not grade them. Now they do. But there was about 15 to 20 years of folks finding excellent sheets and using appropriate blades to make those cards mint, gem mint and pristine.
So I would just be careful investing A LOT of money with the goal of a crossover. PSA says they wont grade them and think they will usually catch it.
i agree i don't think a review would do it. you would have to cut it out.
How can you tell the difference? Isn't that going to be true for every grading company?
What do you mean by true for every grading company? PSA never said they would grade sheet cut cards. Beckett would. Dont think any other grading company but Beckett said they would grade sheet cut cards that the card manufacturer did not cut themselves. So with Beckett, and maybe nobody else, people look at the older cards and maybe raise an eyebrow. Naturally not with 2023 Bowman Chrome #ed auto refractors. Because those uncut sheets with #ed autos were not floating out there. But an 84 Marino? Oh yeah. Cause there were a gazillion 1984 Topps Football uncut sheets out there for sale back in the day. Remember hearing some guy had a huge stack of 1981 Topps Montana uncut sheets a long time ago.
In terms of how you can tell the difference, I'm not exactly sure. But I can kind of tell. Cards from the 80s and earlier can have reasonably sharp corners but when something is cut from an uncut sheet with a very sharp blade it looks different. Corners are razor sharp and edges are flawless. Think the wires that Topps used couldn't cut it so it was just razor sharp and maybe time and the wax cello or rack softens it just a bit. A sheet cut card from the 80s or earlier is going to look like 2025 Topps Chrome and have you feeling that just ain't right. That did not come from a pack.
Certainly it can slip by and I have seen stuff on these boards mentioning there was a guy with a technique who maybe knew how to rub it down with a washcloth or sponge or whathaveyou. But that is a guy trying to submit it with PSA and trick them. With Beckett though no tricks were necessary. They accepted sheet cut cards so it can look way too smooth and sharp everywhere and that was fine with them. That was how you got a BGS 10 Pristine.
So if you are appreciating a BGS 7 or 8 with a little bit touched corners and edges you are probably cool. Its the Mints and Gem Mints from the 80s and earlier where I just think PSA is going to say nope, absolutely not, wont holder that.
Well. if you think about it, every card is a sheet cut card.
No doubt. And I use to think of it that way. But think these experts hired by PSA, at least the more experienced guys, know what it looks like when Topps sheet cuts it and Jack Fleecebottom from Terre Haute, IN sheet cuts it. I'm not sure how they tell but think they can. Not all the time. But a lot of the time. And again, maybe with the mass hirings less of the new blood would get it. But think the grizzled vets would get it. Maybe the new blood stays on TCG and modern and the more experienced guys handle crossovers.
I think there are lots of people who can cut sheets. Probably in a manner very similar to how Topps cut cards early on. I think older equipment is probably out there and still in use. Even if the new equipment can't do it the exactly same. I'm really not sure. But I suspect more stuff can be replicated than most people think. The thing is, if you can't tell... Reading these boards, guys talk about this topic. I've read here that guys think that some famous cards may have been cut from sheets long after the runs were produced.
They label lots of stuff hand cut.
I have one really nice card that I think may have been cut from a sheet that was tossed in the trash which someone then dove in a dumpster to recover. I have never put a straight edge on it. But, I don't think all this kind stuff would be wavy. Maybe you can see some kind of pattern with a microscope. Probably too expensive to have them look at it.
I have been able to cut Mint Gem Mint Pristine cards myself from sheets. But I never had the intention of disguising it as a company issued pack card. I submitted to Beckett I would guess around 2008 to 2012. I had a lot of fun with it because the experience was cool attempting to hand-cut something as close to perfect as possible and then awaiting the results. It could be fun back then because you could go to a show submit your cards to Beckett for Raw Card Review and learn 3 to 4 hours later if you won big. But that grew to be less fun with their moods. I cut everything the same but one batch Mint and Gem Mint, next batch all wavy edge no grade.
Realized I misspoke when I said PSA wont grade cards cut by hand from sheets. Its that they wont grade them if they were issued in packs. So 1984 Topps Nestle was not. During COVID I made buying a lot of those uncut sheets a project and am happy with the cards from that time.
My main point on all of this is, yes there are people who can hide that a card was hand-cut from a sheet, but most of the people who submitted hand-cut cards to Beckett were not trying to hide that it was hand-cut. So think if you buy an old Beckett Topps Gem Mint card it may be one of those and easy to recognize as what it is if a crossover is attempted. Its mostly a Topps thing because those sheets were very easy to find for a while. Donruss Fleer not so much.
Tons of sheet cut cards in PSA slabs, see Martin Sports on eBay for reference. He used to send most his stuff to Beckett but most new stuff is making its way into PSA slabs.
I think PSA loves that people believe that they can tell the difference.
Well, the first card PSA ever graded was sheet cut...
A pretty high profile card!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.