How do you feel about incorrectly labeled certified varieties? (PLEASE, variety collectors, only)
opsuper3
Posts: 4 ✭✭
I am foremost, a Nickel collector. But my widest net encompasses varieties and errors of all denominations with a focus on Re-punched and Over Mint Marks. To many collectors (including my late father) all this is a worthless endeavor. In the past, possibly before many of you began collecting, the three major TPG ensured the authenticity of the varieties along with their other graded coins with a money back guarantee. PCGS was the first to exclude them, followed by NGC, then ANACS. All of them will still reexamine the coins and will re-holder them with a correct designation, if they agree with you. If they disagree, you pay for the entire exam, from grading to research and verification charges, the postage, and anything else they choose to tack on. Even if they agree with you, a coin can lose value in the thousands to whatever the current value of a "normal" coin. You are welcome to send it back, but if they agree the next time, it does not excuse any previous charges
I returned a coin to ANACS because it was not the RPM that the Cherrypickers' Guide had. In fact, it was not an RPM at all. They returned the coin in a holder with just a grade, as it should have been at the beginning. ANACS was still compensating people for misjudged coins. I inquired about that and received contact from an owner. I told the owner that the supposed value was in the hundreds, but what when he asked what I paid, I told him. He made an offer that I felt was generous. After sending coins back for what many would consider minor, they started paying attention to my requests. I feel that I am a cause of at least two changes at ANACS, The first is they excluded varieties and errors from the money back guarantee, the second was they have made a real effort to be the leader in the variety market. If I find a coin that is in error, I have the original owner send it back with ammunition that I supply.
One company was the target of a group of like minded folk that reported some very expensive mistakes that were ongoing. Top pop grade coins were being mislabeled and appearing in registries. At some point, the company we targeted realized this could be a problem, so they fixed it. The incorrect coins and even correctly labeled minor varieties were all assigned a "variety of a variety status." They would now all be valued the same as the genuine article and would would retain their registry points. No harm, no foul, it seems.
The way that company handled the situation upsets me. On the plus side, I have coins that have gone from $50 to hundreds, even a couple in one thousand dollar plus range, in value.
I look to the TPG to ease the worry that I am not buying a coin that is worthless. Like most collectors, I want one of everything in the highest grade possible. I started this crusade when I bought what would be a top tier coin. The grade was a plus, but owning a premium example was why I bought it. On closer examination, I realized it was NOT the correct variety. I did something that still bothers me. I sold it to someone who only cared about the registry points, in his words, "Fighting fire with fire." against others who had high grade, mislabeled examples.
In one decision, a company took a coin that is as rare as hens teeth and tossed them into a pool of dentures. It has killed the rarity of a true example, driving the price down on the correct coin in the raw.
I have friends that think I am an idiot for caring, others that cheer me on. I am told to take satisfaction that I do know and have examples of the correct coin, so I should leave it be. Others feel this is an injustice showing a complete disregard of collectors and the people who have spent hundreds and thousands of hours compiling varieties and their identification. Anybody who is passionate about varieties can learn how to use listings to verify the coin.
If you collect varieties, how do you feel about this? Am I alone in caring?
For those of you that read all of this, thanks for giving me time that you will never get back!
Comments
While I enjoy the registry, the varieties I collect (trade dollars) are so rare that I don't really care about rankings. Just finding an example of some of the varieties in any condition is an incredible triumph.
That being said, misidentified varieties drive me nuts. The one that really sticks in my craw is the 77-S FS-801 DDR. I would pay quite a bit for any chopmarked example, regardless of the condition. I've cherrypicked a couple very nice examples but they are not chopped. I am only aware of one chopmarked example and this isn't it!
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
My Dad and I searched high and low for a "perfect" example of a Trade Dollar. We settled on a near Proof Like 1877. Neither of us were interested in chop marks at the time and we did see plenty of those, including a beautiful, complete collection, all with chop marks, circa 1967 in Dayton, Ohio. In those days, you either bought a coin face to face or ordered one from the back of a magazine. I remember that my Dad called a seller and let them have it, because some of the reverse was blurry! Since my Dad only wanted uncirculated coins for our Type Set, I sometimes wonder if the reverse was a DDR.
I feel your pain. Some issues have many different RPMs.
Another issue you have not addressed is sometimes the source you are using (like CPG) occasionally has the wrong picture as their example.
I used to always contact the TPG when they had the wrong examples posted. NGC was quick to react, either deleting or changing their example. ANACS doesn't post pictures, that I am aware of, but they did take into account what I said about misdiagnosed slabs. For most RPM that are incorrectly labeled, I just put my own tag on the slab. This is the case on older ANACS slabs, rather than the later certifications. Using the pictures at the third TPG can lead to problems. Lots of coins in the raw claiming to be CPG varieties because they matched what they saw. Even worse, lots of wrong coins in certified slabs.
I wasn't aware of many errors with the CPG books, but I know of some. The biggest problem is that to keep the book "fresh" a lot of varieties do not get put in the subsequent volume. There is a small section of errata at the back of the book when a problem was found. Sometimes it was a publishing error, where an incorrect picture was used. Others went through a lot of people before being published, but the authors never denied a mistake, if it was found. The publication of the CPG was huge deal before JT passed away. I could tell he felt pressured at times. Everything in the CPG is distilled from the suggestions of important people in the industry but the the amount of space is finite. There are dozens of deadlines to be met before the publishing date is met. It's like herding cats!
I was always good at those cartoons in the newspaper with what appeared to be two identical pictures. Your task was to find 6 things that were different. As a kid, I could glance and immediately pick out all of the changes as fast as I could mark them. I guess that is why I picked RPM to study and collect. I was attracted to the Nickel RPM above all. The first book that I had was Wexler's, just closeups of each mint mark. When the Jefferson Nickel RPM Book came out, I realized I had misidentified at least half of all that I owned. When Wiles put pictures to go with the Nickel RPM, I had some revelations, but I saw that some RPM listings were duplicated, mainly because a stage change, often a die marriage change, die wear, or damage. So, not only do I try to get an example of each RPM, I try to collect the various stages, if they are significant. Die wear can make the RPM look different and die marriages, obverse to reverse pairing changes, can confuse the issue. Obviously, I am passionate about Nickel RPM and will challenge anyone! 🤣