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GB 1820 Shilling... What do you think?

coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,904 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum

I thought this would be an interesting coin/image to post for various reasons. Feel free to make constructive comments... The outcome was not anticipated. Please try to refrain from posting the PCGS opinion for afew days to give folks the opportunity to contemplate this one.

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Comments

  • johnjohn10johnjohn10 Posts: 64 ✭✭✭

    My initial thought was they might not like it if struck through what appears to be some grease (?) on the portrait. Might just be toning but would need to look at it in hand. I have had a couple of German coins kick out for that. Again, from the pics I would call it a 64/65.

  • SimonWSimonW Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That surprised me as well, I see what they’re looking at, but I wouldn’t have caught it I don’t think.

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  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,823 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With the toning, hard to tell, but my initial guess is MS 63
    That’s a very cool coin!

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  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2025 4:09AM

    This coin is not a proof. London Mint made top of the line, high quality proofs - it would be obvious if it were one.

    I don’t believe this date comes in proof at all. There were a handful slabbed as such a decade or two ago, but at this point it shouldn’t be happening. Unfortunately this is not the first time I’ve seen this sort of thing recently.

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  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,904 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1820 Shilling is known to exist in Proof and is recognized by both Spink and Coincraft. And in all fairness, I don't know if Coincraft still publishes a catalog- the last year I have 2000.

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  • KSorboKSorbo Posts: 163 ✭✭✭

    Is that a lamination at around 2:00 on the obverse, above the “B” in “Britannia”? Apart from that I would guess 63. I have an 1816 shilling in 63 that like the OP’s is well struck with a good bit of toning. There is a lot of history associated with that issue. The 1816 recoinage was a big deal.

  • RexfordRexford Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2025 7:45PM

    @coinkat said:
    The 1820 Shilling is known to exist in Proof and is recognized by both Spink and Coincraft. And in all fairness, I don't know if Coincraft still publishes a catalog- the last year I have 2000.

    The British have historically messed up their classifications of PF and MS pretty badly, especially on George III silver. “Recognized by particular entities” and “known to exist” are not the same thing - in the same way that a TPG calling such a coin a Proof does not make it so.

    It’s telling that PCGS has certified only three other coins of this date, and all long enough ago that Trueviews were not used. NGC has certified only one, over a decade ago: https://coins.ha.com/itm/great-britain/great-britain-george-iii-proof-shilling-1820-/a/3029-30677.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0#

    The NGC coin is nice and well-made (also entirely different dies from the OP example), but London made nice coins. That doesn’t make them proofs. Compare any 1820 Shilling to any contemporary or even 18-century British pattern, any of the Soho Mint proofs from two decades prior, or any 1826 proof, and you will see a world of difference in the polished fields, the strike, and the edge. Compare them to a nice prooflike business strike 1820 Crown though, and the finest production of 1820 Shillings will exhibit the same if not inferior qualities. There’s no reason why the OP coin should suddenly be referred to as such when there’s nothing particularly special about it - I would be inclined to think it a mech error.

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  • ClioClio Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very surprised by the grade. I don't see anything in particular that would make me suspect proof on it (aside from any discussions if it exists). These are often found nice, well struck with PL fields. Notably one I have considered buying in the past:

    https://kbcoins.com/store/shillings-1820-george-iii-possibly-from-reused-proof-dies-bu.html

    Much of the die appears re-engraved and there's several letters re-punched? Notice the "O" in "GEOR". This would be sloppy work for a proof. Foolish of me to claim to know more than graders at a given TPG but we all are capable of making mistakes.

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