MBA (Mike Baker Authenticated) Crossover Attempt - PSA Says Altered
gunboat82
Posts: 3 ✭
Just a word of caution to anyone hoping to cross an MBA card over to PSA. I purchased an MBA 3.5 Silver Diamond Mantle from Greg Morris Cards on eBay. I set the minimum grade requested as a "1."
PSA rendered its opinion and shipped the card back to me for $183.99, rejecting it as altered stock:
"Your order did not crossover because it did not meet your minimum grade requirement that you set,
meaning our graders are of the opinion that your card did not meet the standards of that minimum
grade or higher. They do not come to this conclusion lightly, and more than two expert PSA Graders
inspect your item, and they both must come to the same conclusion. According to our graders, there
were signs of alterations on this card, and the only way to have had this item encapsulated was to set
your minimum grade to authentic."
I don't have any additional details because there are no grader notes. I just wanted to let people know that PSA and MBA are clearly using different criteria to identify alterations.
Comments
Wish they told you what and where the alteration is - color added, trimmed and which side or sides, rebuilt corner, etc. it would be good information to go back to Morris or Baker with.
Crossing a card to PSA can be tricky. In 2014…I won a 1971 Thurman Munson SGC-96 in REA. I cracked it out …and sent it to PSA…who said it was trimmed. I then resent it back to SGC…who then graded it SGC-92. Grading can be a precarious “game”.
Yes, PSA's communication is terrible. It appears to be the right size and no other evidence of trimming or added color. If PSA really does have two experts looking at these, my best guess is that someone cleaned it and left evidence that MBA doesn't look for.
I don't know if PSA's AI grading software is turned too much toward modern and TCG but about a year ago when I started getting the Trimmed responses on multiple vintage that I personally pulled from boxes myself I knew their interest in grading vintage was over.
AI is what the owners make it and it seems PSA has modified theirs to favor modern over vintage. Throw in older cardboard, rough edges, flaking corners and you'll be lucky to get that through these days.
It would certainly help if they gave some feedback for sure.
Do the the places where it is worn on the top corners look too white? The bottom left corner stands out because its red but the bottom right looks worn and discolored/not so white. Top left and top right and top edge look worn but strong white. Maybe too white. Bottom right corner where worn looks a bit more grayish brown. If they are saying altered, maybe they feel paint was added. Not saying its that just guessing.
But also think it could be nothing. I think if you send a card to PSA in someone else's holder its kind of "they dont know what they are doing" kind of statement. They cant possibly know what they are doing and grade it right. It being in their holder means its overgraded or not authentic. I sent a BGS 9 Desert Shield Chipper Jones to PSA to see if it could be PSA 9 and of course it had to be minimum size not met grade. Lesson learned. Never again.
Maybe send it to the boutique grader if you dont think someone took a bottle of Whiteout to it. Think it would look nice in an SGC holder.
You can get that if you pay more money. 😊
Cards been washed. Upper right looks altered.
At what service level?
The wear, color, and shape of top corners don't seem to match the bottom corners.
https://kennerstartinglineup.blogspot.com/
As I am reading it, the service kicks in at the Express $149 a card 5 business day level. All of those service levels say "with grader notes".
So I may have misspoke when I said you should get that if you pay more money. Pay enough money is probably more appropriate. $183 would seem to have bought those notes if that was the single card price depending on the level chosen and when it was submitted. Grader notes I think was only added recently.
Thanks for answering. i thought $183 was a decent service level so disappointing that the OP did not get more info.
I would suggest that the OP buy some similar grade 1953 Topps baseball commons, even buy some inexpensive PSA slabbed cards, crack the slab, and get the feel of a raw genuine unaltered 1953 card. Look at it under magnification, also look at it under a black light, etc.
That way you can learn what grading is all about, and recognizing altered cards.
Do that and get back to us here, and I think you'll discover what PSA already knows about that Mantle.
BTW - I've seen complaints in other threads about PSA charging and then not slabbing a card. Welcome to the year 2025. Most if not all reputable companies these days in any field, charge for "estimates." You pay for the time and expense put in for the work done, regardless even if no further work is done. Don't like it, then try to get the job done someplace else.
PSA has never made a mistake.
The post is not a complaint about PSA; it's simply a warning to anyone assuming MBA is more likely to cross over due to Baker's history with PSA. As MBA vintage slabs have started circulating, people in some groups (especially those familiar with the diamond certification program) have suggested that crossing over is "safer" with MBA because they're more stringent. This is just one example that shows it's not true. Numeric grading is highly subjective, but every professional grading company should be able to reach similar conclusions about whether a card has been tampered with.
I personally appreciate the feedback so thanks. I think crossover grading can be a hot mess and certain paths I probably dont have the stomach for it. Loved it with PSA to SGC because there wasn't a lot of this is altered minimum size not met type results. Usually just no, did not meet the requested grade but often enough, yes it did. Its nice to feel that you have a good eye and can see the undergrading and the experts agree with you. With PSA sometimes it can feel like here is my car for inspection and they will tell you the car you drive every day is an airplane and they wont renew your registration. Here is your airplane idiot.
I'd be interested if anyone has had any success turning in TAG cards for crossover. Been seeing them pop up in large #s in the TCG world. I can imagine there would be a similar this is not even a trading card or its too small or its altered angle.
It’s there new thing, I sent in 20-1976 George Foster’s and 4 got altered stock.
Nonsense
This is exactly why I’ve almost stopped doing any grading. I only do vintage and in the past 12 months I started getting so much of these returns.
Speculating here, but it seems their AI grading system is set with a Modern standard and it just can’t accurately review the odd shaped, weird cuts and poor card stock of vintage.
Getting vintage graded like this is a very frustrating experience.
The card tops also caught my eye. If not whiteout, maybe a little tacky glue was used to hold down the tips.
When considering imaging I would be hesitant to form a firm conclusion based on a picture alone. There are so many artifacts possible that it’s tough to be certain. Then there’s the whole “color is an individual experience” thing. Colors don’t really exist any more than love or art. It’s a physical experience.
'Then there’s the whole “color is an individual experience” thing. Colors don’t really exist any more than love or art. It’s a physical experience'??? Are you trying to tell us that if 6 turned out to be 9 you wouldn't mind?
Well. Not necessarily. But if the hippies cut off all their hair…
I think it’s safe to assume that assumptions are unsafe.
Farewell Ryno.
So what happens with the card now?
Delete…