Are the "National Shows" destroying us little guys?
joeykoins
Posts: 17,547 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi guys,
Yeah, many of you guys are aware of the NATIONAL Show just wrapped up in my hometown, Chicago! I, for one, are new to the Sports Card side. Just crossed over from Coins.
So, in saying that. Which brings me to the topic,
The NATIONAL!
I have never attended the BIG DANCE yet!
This past Thursday, I planned on going to my very first, NATIONAL! But, fate had discouraged me NOT to attend!
Yes, I was actually in route but something hit me like a ton of bricks!
Saying, " Joe, do you realize you'll be dishing out nearly $50 on Admission/Parking alone, plus gas, even just barely walking through the doors?"
So, it made me to really think.
Yeah, conscience! You're right!
Soon after, I found out I made the Best decision!
While going to my favorite LCS, to purchase something with that $50, plus, selling some items I brought with me. There was an older gentleman with his 12 yr old grandson. I overheard them talking to the clerk about just coming back from the Show!
He was explaining the chaotic situations. He said, NO PARKING! His friend phoning him from inside, saying the lines are CRAZY!
Over 1 1/2 hour to wait in line! Nuts!
I quickly spoke out, "wow, I was headed there, then, gladly changed my mind! Wow! Thank goodness".
Getting to the topic...
Watching on YouTube, all the streams about the Show.
All I was seeing was "BIG TIME DEALS"
Hardly any regular small transactions.
Sure, I'm positive there were many small exchanges but 99% were BIG MONEY trades!
I'm glad I didn't go for not only the obvious reasons but for this reason, as well.
I'm not one of those Exclusive Dealers or BIG Cash customer!
I'm pretty sure, if I walked up to a table with my less valuable inventory that I brought with me. Including some of my PSA Graded ones too!
But bc I don't have any
"Shohei" Autographs or any "Judge"1/1's!
They would very quickly shoot me down!
They would probably be thinking, "Com'on guy, please stop wasting my precious time with your petty cards!"
So, are these Large transactions by these dealers, really
"KILLING" us small guys and gals with our small stuff?
I already sold most of my valuable items months ago. Now, my most valuable stuff is only popular base Rookies, popular Numbered cards, good named Parallels, Relics and Auto's of players in the lower talent class. Like many kids have in there inventory. These cards are despised in the eyes of dealers and majority of other collectors.
Now, concerning the NATIONAL.
I'm probably not ready for the BIGS yet?
Maybe I'll stick to the "minor league" of Shows? Until I can accumulate any More valuable and highly sought after cards, to make these dealers interested in me!
Lol
In closing,
Is this the new trend that will throw us little guys under the bus for the
MEGA CASH customers?
Like so many hobbies. Is the Sports Card hobby now only about
$$$$$$$$$$$$$?
NOT the FUN and Collectability aspect?
Thanks guys
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
Comments
I am a small time buyer and rather just stay home and buy online. Cannot afford the travel and all other expenses. I collect coins. We have to know are monetary limits in life.
While there is certainly some truth to the anecdotes you shared about The National, the sheer size of the show is a huge positive in my opinion.
-There are dollar boxes for the frugal collector.
-There are 4-row boxes galore of vintage cards for the traditional set builders.
-There are showcases full of cards under $100 for the average collector.
-There are displays with mostly raw cards for those that don’t like graded or want to keep their collections unslabbed.
-There are countless pro athletes (current & retired) for the in-person autograph hunter.
-And there are certainly big $$$ displays where the high rollers can drop tens of thousands of dollars or more on singles or unopened product.
Small transactions, big transactions, trade nights, etc. The National has something for everyone. I’m rambling but attending The National is a highlight of the year for me and a chance to connect with dealers and make new friends in the community. Kinda like a mini hobbyist vacation that I look forward to every single year.
I respect all opinions for sure but here’s hoping you or anyone that loves collecting gets the chance to experience this annual event at least once time in their lives.
Thanks for bringing out the true
Positives!
However, the negatives out rule the positives!
Sure, I get it!
But approaching these tables with possible sales/trades is also part of the enjoyment of the game but these BIG time spenders/buyers are making the hobby less FUN!
Totally, out of their league.
Thank you, bud.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Oh!
Not to only focus on Dealers and/or BIG Spenders.
I must include the greed and selfish companies.
That Jack up these prices for the products, as well!
Com'on, $40+ for
BLASTERS?
Please forgive my rant.
I know someone's dieing to say, "if you don't like it buddy, don't buy or go to these shows!"
😆
Like Rodney Dangerfield, would say,
"Things are tough all over!"
I get it.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I use to think quite a bit like you. How can I justify going to the show, spending $50 to get in, 8 hours of driving, gas, tolls, hotel, flight, etc. When you add it all up, it is easy to say I should have just put that money toward a Mantle or Mays or whatever card you're intersted in. And to a point you are right. It doesn't always make economic sense. However, the national is much more. Make friends. Talk to folks. Help other collectors. There are a lot of ways the show can be enjoyed. This year a friend met me and a few others at the show just to walk around and talk without any intention to buy anything, and he had a great time. There are plenty of opportunities to buy stuff on the low end and you'll find items at the National you may never see anywhere else.
From a purchasing side, buying/selling huge valued cards can often feel like a keeping up with the Jones type thing and can easily make you feel inadequate. It doesn't matter what you're budget is. You're not alone in this. If you have a $100 budget, the guy spending $1000 will be unthinkable. A $1000 budget, and the $10k sale will be amazing. The $10k budget and the $30k sale will amaze you. Many of us feel that way regardless of our budget. There is no doubt that the big purchases garner attention. Folks are always willing to say "great purchase" when it is a 52 Mantle or 15 Crackerjack Jackson or some other huge card cause that's what folks do. High dollar items are impressive and generate clicks due to the WOW factor. Completing a 69 topps set may not seem as impressive but to the person who can only afford a $20 per month collecting budget and has take 5 years it is a big deal and just as impressive. At the end of the day you need to decide if you are in the hobby for yourself or the appreciation of others. If dealers are critizing you for your budget that is an issue with that dealer not with you.
I would definitely recommend you attend the National at somepoint and you should be glad it is in your area that you have the chance. Is it a perfect event, not even close. But I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you can find at the show if you don't get caught up in the money aspect and truely just appreciate the opportunity.
Well, thank you, very much for your interest and the great info and opinions!
Just to let you and the rest that contributed to my thread.
I really appreciate it!
Also, I know I will eventually
attend one. I know the main vocal points in attending such a SUPER Show like the NATIONAL. Remember, I did mention I was an avid "Coin Collector" previous to catching the "Sports Card" bug!
I attended many Great Coin Shows for years! Over 25 years! Including many at this same venue at, The Stephen's Center, Here at Rosemont.
But I must admit, this particular Show, doesn't compare to any of all the Huge Coin Shows I attended!
Sure, I understand there are something for everyone here but for a little investor such as myself, a little too overwhelming!
Thanks again.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.The National happens once per year, so no, its not taking anything away from anyone. Its the Super Bowl of the hobby. Tables at the show are in the tens of thousands of dollars. There is limited time and a lot of people. Dealers are always looking for the rare, diffcult and high demand inventory to bring back home. It doesn't awalys have to be Judge and Ohtani. I know of a few guys looking for tough 90s insert cards that look like they should book for $20 but can get $1500 for. But from a dealer perspective, if you're paying $10,000 for a table, looking at 1987 Topps Barry Bonds and 1988 Donruss Gregg Jefferies isn't going to help you out of the red. If you have a small collection, a local show that cost $50 a table is going to be more productive for both parties. For those on the lower end of the collecting scale, there are tons of dollar boxes, trade nights and other fun things to do there. Enjoy the experience.
I plan on attending the national some day when I win the lottery.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ohio State Buckeyes - National Champions
Then you can be like these
"BILLIONAIRES"
that RIP like us small guys!
Ala Tom Brady
😆
That's one thing I'll never understand.
Do you realize all the stuff they can get their hands on?
Then, at NO RISK financially!!!
Can one imagine???
WoW!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.For me, the National is more valuable for me to get together with hobby friends to talk cards. If I find something to buy, great. If not, no biggie. I won't pay an artificially high price just to I get it at the National. Regarding the big time deals, that's what you mostly see on Youtube because people usually won't make videos about how they picked up 25 commons for their set for $5. Those videos won't trend.
Yes, you're right!
It should be FUN
before profit!
Thanks😊
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I wouldn't be too concerned that The National is a threat to the little guy. Its just its own once a year grandiose thing. I plan to go to a show at a firehouse on Sunday where they will probably have 20 tables. There will continue to be space for every type of collector in person or on the internet.
You can also wear some different hats. Once a year, or every two to three years you can save up and tap out the ATM and check out the big show.
I used to love The National and the feel of the big stage where there was incredible inventory and on-site grading (cheap same day grading many years ago 😊) and auto guests and I felt like I could buy something exciting and not too expensive from BBCE and if the cards looked nice I believed I'd get nice grades. Now 1000% more expensive and same card maybe two grades lower. There was a bit more space between all the people. I did love those times but it feels like a different thing now that I wont enjoy too much. But that is cool cause as mentioned before, every one of us can find that place where we feel we fit.
The National isn't destroying anyone. It is, as someone else already said, essentially the "Super Bowl" of card shows. It's an event, a happening, a museum, a trade night, and autograph convention, and a card show all wrapped up in one gigantic convention center. It is what it is. Like with anything in life, you can go or not go, up to you. If you go, you can choose to enjoy the experience on your terms, or you can choose to be miserable.
The National, and the hobby in general, has fun entry points across all price ranges and budgets. You can buy a box of 37 year old wax for a $20 bill right now if you're into 1988 Topps, Fleer, Donruss, or Score. You can build a low-mid grade set of most every set from the 1970's with patience and diligence for not all that much money. Literally millions of those cards were printed, and millions still exist. You can have a blast hunting scarce regional issues, minor league cards, food-based issues, stickers, pennants, ballpark give-aways etc., all with HOF or big name players, and still not spend too much money. The National is great for some of those things, because you can find some really oddball stuff there if you're patient. You can also go all in, and buy a seven figure card if you want. I suspect with a $10 million budget, you could have completed a set of Cracker Jack cards in Chicago last week, simply because odds are there was at least one example of every card in the set present in that room. I suspect someone's tried that before, because they had more money than sense and just saw the task as a fun way to blow a trust fund. And that's ok too.
The National annually seems to spawn a whole round of soul-searching, hand wringing, and pearl clutching about the state of the hobby, the future of the hobby, and how it's "just not what it used to be." For some reason, it seems to focus all of those emotions for folks on message boards and in local card shops. I think that's totally overplayed. The state of the hobby is great. There's something for everyone, at most every price point. There's flashy new stuff, and fun vintage stuff, and the internet has made it all available at the click of a mouse. There are young kids getting into all sorts of areas of the hobby, and there are older folks who are finally able to find those white whales that have eluded them for years. Money is flowing, cards are changing hands, and more people than ever are being introduced to the fun that can be had with card collecting.
I, for one, am optimistic about the hobby. Having been to the National, I'll say that it can be exhausting but a ton of fun. I just view it as an experience, like going to Disney World. You go, you have fun, you hug Mickey Mouse, and you come home with memories, a sunburn, and a lighter wallet. The National isn't destroying the little guys. If you haven't been, go try it. Set a budget, plan on meeting up with some friends you haven't seen in person before, and make a week of it. I suspect you won't be sorry.
kevin
OK, Kevin. You most certainly sound like that guy, (the,"been there,done that, guy!") 😆 I appreciate all your research and detailed info. Plus, your encouragement! I know, one day. I'll find a, "all my ducks-in-a-row", moment. To have the fun that's waiting for me at a NATIONAL! Eventually.
Thanks
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I think The National is like most other things. When you get to be my age, it aint like it used to be. 😄 For the new generation its wonderful. Give them 25 years and they will say it sucks. I have no plans to go to Lollapalooza again either. Jane's Addiction became Olivia Rodrigo. Someone 30 years younger loves that. I want to ralph. But this is part of getting older.
C'mon Ulysses...Say it ain't true...Are you trying to tell us that you still don't know what to do with all those Dave Magadan and Greg Jeffries RC cards you loaded up on in 87-88?
You mean 81F Craig Nettles?
How’s the NSCC hurting the little guys though?
If you haven't been, go try it. Set a budget, plan on meeting up with some friends you haven't seen in person before, and make a week of it. I suspect you won't be sorry.
That reminds me, I'm pretty sure a few members here from the BBCE CU Group Rips met at the National. This was over a decade ago and I'm confident some are still friends to this day.
They should be in this binder leaning against the wall in the basement. Let me check.
Okay, let me see, Cory Snyder, Pete Incaviglia, no.
Let's see. What's this? My 1990 fantasy baseball team. No.
Here is that incredible oversized 1989 Bowman set. Not there either.
Here is some 87 Topps. Will The Thrill Clark. Greg Swindell. Mike Greenwell. Bonilla. Wallyworld Joyner.
Wa
Then, David West, Ricky Jordan, Sandy Alomar rookies. Not sure what happened to those Dave Magadan Greg Jefferies cards. Maybe they are in screwdowns somewhere.
Man, I have a binder just like that one!
kevin
WOW!
Well, I could be wrong in my assumption.
All I'm saying is that, we small investors get shoved on the back burners. Or we little fish, get thrown back to be replaced by the BIG CATCHES, than by us Sunfish!
😆
Mostly, only at the NATIONAL.
But I get it dealers. You got to worry about your expenses too! Esp, first to pay for the "table/s" you rent!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Never been, probably never will go. I have never even been to a larger regional show, if they even have those anymore in my area. If you are strictly taking about finding stuff to buy, ebay keeps me plenty busy buying and I add in an occasional trip to a local shop or small mall type show. I figure most dealers are constantly peddling their stuff wherever they can get an audience, so holding back anything special I would be seeking for a big show makes little sense. I do enjoy the bargain hunting part, looking in boxes trying to mine neat cards I was not expecting to find I do that at shops and mall shows, sometimes spending hours looking and maybe only finding $20-50 worth of stuff I can't live without. However, spending big bucks to travel to a huge show for this type of thing is not realistic.
I figure the whole grand experience would be my only real draw and to check the event off my list, but I dislike crowds and waiting lines to the extreme. I heard some people mentioning in their experiences this year that they had to wait just to be able to get close enough to a booth to even see cases or to look through boxes. I am sure that was not the norm at all times, but paying to get into a show and then not being able to see what you want to see would be a major bummer.
I also can't quite get past a facebook post I saw too. I don't know if this was just sarcastic trolls piling on or if it's really a major issue, but the ridiculously large amount of people separately talking about body odor/remember to bring deodorant/shower/wash your ass DAILY before you go, etc was certainly concerning. I know a huge convention hall filled with sweaty stinky dudes is not an appealing thought one bit.
Who knows. Maybe someday if the stars align and it's being held somewhere I want to visit at a time when it works for my schedule, I may try to attend one. i'll make sure i don't stink, I will not have a padded, handled case with all my "slabs" to carry around and you won't hear me say "comp" one single time! Just trying to do my part.
I don’t go most years but I enjoy the NSCC. I even bring my wife with me.
I would recommend checking it out once if you haven’t but it’s certainly not for everyone. It’s good for autographs that you might not be able to get in person otherwise. If you’re after particular cards it’s usually your best chance to compare a few. It’s good for set-building. Fun to get together with guys you know from the registry and elsewhere.