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They weren't Hall of Famers back then
BaltimoreYankee
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In 2016, I finished my 1971 Topps set build. At the time, I was collecting the HOFers as PSA graded cards and the rest of the set (for the most part) ungraded. I was going through the set today and realized the 4 guys pictured here have subsequently become HOFers (along with Dick Allen, whose card I bought graded). This got me wondering if there are any more future HOFers in the '71T set. I don't think there are but there are some other excellent players who have come short. I'm thinking Munson, Frank Howard, Boog Powell, Luzinski, Maury Wills, Tommy John. Does anyone think there is another sleeper future HOFer in the set?
It took a long time for these guys from the '71T set to make it to the HOF:
Daniel
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Since Simba was my favorite catcher as a kid he was always a HoFer in my mind!
I also think Tommy John finds a way in at some point, somehow. Munson should be in too.
Good thing I'm not on the committee because they'd need to double the size of the building.
I always thought Garvey would find his way in and Baker is lock..
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I was so convinced Garvey was a HOFer that back in 1993, I had him (as well as Aparicio, Feller, Jenkins and Brooks Robinson) sign a HOF mini bat at the All Star Fanfest in Baltimore.
Good call on Dusty Baker - he will definitely get in. I bought his '71 card graded as it can be a pricey one and I was careful with the potential for recoloring corners.
i also thought that garvey would be in the hall by now. baker will make it in as a manager in about three years.
Dusty Baker, Tommy John, Luis Tiant Cito Gaston.
Tommy John. Would be a nice way as well to acknowledge the career saving surgery named after him.
There are kids today who don’t realize he was an actual player! That’s how ubiquitous his name is with the surgery named after him. But check out those stats; 288 wins! Not bad considering all the time he spent injured. Have to imagine he gets in one day.
And Munson…to this day it seems absolutely WILD they can penalize a guy for dying. Geez! MVP, ROY, 2 time WS Champ, first Yankee captain since Gehrig all while playing the most demanding position in the game. It seems clear to me if he’d finished his career naturally he’d be a shoe in. One day Thurm, one day. 🤞
Perhaps Freehan. Top consistent AL All-Star catcher 1964 to 1974
Technically, the only thing that kept Tommy John out of the Hall of Fame was that his career win/loss percentage was not up to par with the standards at the time. Since about the time of Felix Hernandez, we've seen a shift that should see TJ getting into the HOF.
Munson will be the most puzzling non-Hall-of-Famer to me once Buster Posey gets enshrined. Posey and Munson's careers are nearly identical.
Catchers have historically gotten little respect from Hall voters and that should change. So much of what they do don't show up in offensive stats. It does seem better than even 20 years ago.
I know it's also not a great comparison (maybe apples to pears), but if Koufax got a ton of respect for his potential and a shortened career due to injury then Munson should also get a similar respect. Dude's a HoFer.
Don’t get it since the position is SO physically demanding. More should get in with lesser stats because of that INO
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Koufax got in because his peak was so ridiculously high. Munson was nowhere near that.
As for the Posey comparisons, his peak was higher than Munson. And he didn't fade off. Munson had already lost all his power by the time of his death.
I remember as a young teenager ripping wax packs of this set an putting a complete set together with the help of other collectors in the neighborhood by trading.I always had a soft spot for the 71 set....beautiful cards.
Munson was already talking about retirement around the time of his untimely death. He was declining quickly, He played with a lot of great players and won an MVP that George Brett deserved. Very good player - not a Hall of Famer.
The voting for MVP that year was crazy. The top 5 guys had exactly one player in double figures for homers - Munson. 8th place was Bill Campbell - a reliever with an ERA over 3. Mark Fidrych, Jim Palmer, and Frank Tanana finished behind Campbell despite being significantly better.
Brett did not even have the highest WAR for his position in his league that year, Nettles did.
If you are going to discount WAR then Carew had a slightly better overall season than Brett.
Also again if you are going to discount WAR then having a better 1976 season than Brett by the very tiniest of overall margins was McRae! Therein lies the problem Brett and McRae were so very close to identical and on same Division winning team thus cancelling each other out Only way Brett was going to have chance at winning in 1976 was if he had a definitively better season than McRae and he did simply NOT.
A better case might be is Fidrych was robbed of the 1976 MVP. Highest WAR in League by 1.6, Nettles was 2nd with 8.0. Different game then and from the late 40's to the late 70s Catchers with solid numbers were valued over other positions. IMHO the 1976 AL MVP was era appropriate. If using Modern day metrics, specifically WAR then Nettles should have won. Regardless of all that, to re-iterate, Brett and McRae totally cancel each other out from hitting standpoint!
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Spoken like a Yankee Fan - does Brett deserve the MVP in 85? Munson's 769 OPS and 126 OPS Plus is not MVP Material. On balance, Brett had the best year. If Nettles played in KC he would have had 10 homeruns and batted 210.
McRae had ever so slight better numbers over all - hows about explaining why on earth Brett deserved it over him and Brett's defense at that juncture of his career was not too nice.
Comparing the stats - will not count WAR since you discount Nettles superiority in that stats, I will do same for Brett!
Runs: Advantage Brett by 19
Hits: Advantage Brett - by 35! - Lead League
HR: Advantage McRae by 1
RBI: Advantage McRae by 6
BB: Advantage McRae by 15
OBP: Advantage McRae by .30! - Lead League
SLG: Advantage Brett by 1
BA: IMHO a dead heat as Brett led by a mere fraction of a percentage point - Brett Lead League
OPS: Advantage McRae - by .29! - Lead League
When looked at overall theirs season are pretty much equal and I give the edge to McRae as he put up his numbers in 115 fewer AB's. But lemme guess you have an "investment" in Brett cards thus the 'tude towards poor McRae.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Spoken like a Mets fan! (Just busting your chops as I see you have a Tom Seaver avatar. My favorite Met of all time, Tom Terrific!)
I have to disagree.
Munson is an easy > @tod41 said:
Munson hit .346 with 3 home runs in 26 at-bats in KC in 1976.
Brett hit .367 6hr 43 rbis at home in 1976. He hit .301 with 1 home run and 24 rbis away.
Hal McRae hit .382 at home while hitting .286 away.
Seems like Royals hitter were much better at home than away. I would guess if Nettles played with the Royals he'd have hit nearly .300.
Every single Royal hitter from 1976 seemed to have a .40+ higher batting average at home than away.
And Nettles hit .190 with a .566 OPS in KC. So maybe .210 was being generous
Let's be fair....it was in 25 at-bats.
In his career, he hit .251 (249 AB's) at KC, which is slightly higher than his career BA of .248
The Turf at KC's Royal's Stadium in the 70s and 80s played super fast and was good for 20-30 extra hits per year assuming everyday player. Any hard Ground balls hit more than a foot away from a fielder was almost always a hit. Willie Wilson (underrated IMHO) made a career of it or at least from 79-85.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)