Collecting on the Merits of Eye Appeal Against Grade
Clio
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I am just going to share some of my personal musings in regard to when I choose an upgrade for my sets. I do use the PCGS registry which influences some of my decision making. Not always but most of the time. Would love to know your thoughts on some of the choices I made for the better or worse.
Let's start with the coins I had to choose between when there's a grade value difference.
MS65
VS
MS66
This is one where I owned the MS66 first. Both Submitted raw. I knew the 65 was going to have an uphill battle but it's got great color. I ultimately went with the 66 since that is a high bar for the series I felt the jump between 65-66 was significant enough.
MS64
VS
MS66
At this rate it would be incredibly difficult to choose the lower grade with a 2-point swing. The type of GV Shilling is a mere 50% silver which means it doesn't come nicely toned often. Both Submitted raw.
MS65
VS
MS66
This one I probably made the wrong decision in all honesty. I was slightly more compelled to let the toner go since it would go to the collection of a good friend of mine, so I am keeping track of it. Not to mention the Trueview of the 1932 isn't doing it any favors.
MS65
VS
MS66
I took the upgrade and very likely should've kept the 65. I loved that 65. Beautiful light color and blazing luster but sadly some crud on the high points of the coin. Likely some storage issue I assume.
MS64
VS
MS66
Another one that would be very difficult to choose the lower grade and honestly the toning on the 66 is pretty great. Very subtle in comparison, you can't say the 64 isn't gorgeous in it's own right.
MS64
VS
MS65
I loved the toning on the 64 but this is a common enough date, and I had a whole slew of those with similar toning all grade MS64 which made me less impressed with them. Love the original surfaces of the 65 so I went with it despite the lack of nice toning.
Okay that wraps up the coins that have a difference in point value. Now for the coins that were tied.
VS
Both MS64. Interestingly enough the 1697 was cracked out of an NGC MS64 holder and ended up graded MS63 prior to my owning it. I later cracked it out and resubbed it to the 64 it enjoys today. The 1700 was in an NGC MS65 holder and downgraded to a PCGS MS64 holder. In my experience PCGS and NGC disagree on what constitutes GEM on early milled coinage. I chose the 1697 for my collection mostly due to a sour taste I had with the 1700 failing to cross and downgrading. Today I would likely keep the 1700 and let the 1697 go.
1
VS
2
VS
3
VS
4
How about a 4 way tie. Edward VII shillings just seem to top out at MS64. I graded all of these myself and can't get a 65 to save my life haha. They all have their merits. #3 has a small planchet flaw on the noggin. #1 has some really nice toning. I ultimately settled on #4 which is imo the nicest toning and the only one not a 1902 which is a relatively common date. Worth noting that 1902s generally come better struck than later years.
1
VS
2
This was a tough decision. Both 65 and both submitted raw. I really liked how flashy #2 was but I went with #1 on account of the better strike and more original surfaces.
1
VS
2
You ever kick a coin out of bed because they bombed the TV so hard? #2 is a beautiful coin in hand with an incredibly bad true view. I kept #1 in my set. Both MS65 though I bought #1 already graded.
Alright that's it! Hope y'all enjoyed a snapshot into some of my collecting journey and I would love to hear your feedback on where you would've chosen different. Or if you would've picked the same as well.
Cheers!
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The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
Comments
Wonderful coins and with some very tough choices. I would be among the last to second guess any choices.
I will offer a few comments… taken them for what they are worth. I likely would have selected the 1697 Shilling as well. I believe there is a story surrounding a hoard of coins dated 1700 with others that was discovered in a London bank vault years ago. I suspect the 1697 is the tougher coin which would influence my choice. I like the 1700 too which makes choosing difficult.
I agree with choosing the 1906 as it is more difficult in MS. I suspect the surviving MS pop for the 1902 is significantly more than the 1906.
Well played.
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Do you keep all duplicates when you get an upgrade?
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The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
Great post as it highlights very personal decisions when it comes to collecting. The most i can do is provide some of my own experiences.
For me, appeal is number one. I have to love everything about the coin to add it to my primary collection. I've been focused on building a relatively short set for about a decade and consistently refused to upgrade or fill holes in the set with coins that I don't feel are checking all my boxes when it comes to appeal.
I would upgrade a date if i found a better quality example with the same appeal as the one in the collection. If that happens, historically I would sell the existing coin to continue funding my addition. Every single time that happened, I eventually regretted doing so. So, i have pivoted to keeping duplicates.
I would sacrifice appeal for something extremely rare. But with an understanding that if, by chance, a more appealing piece comes to light - i would try to acquire it. In this case, I would likely end up selling the lesser piece without any remorse.
That's the evolution of my collector thinking. There are a lot of factors that make this extremely difficult, mainly because my numismatic budget is of a certain size and I have strong competition in the space.
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I think it is good to have a set represent your own unique taste. In many cases, I don't have a lot of choices between coins, so it can take a long time before my set represents what I like rather than "what was available".
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This is an important consideration. Is time important to you? Are you ok with taking years or decades to complete a set that can be done sooner? If the answer is no, then it changes how you prioritize building the set.
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I will pick eye appeal over grade but still will not go below 64 unless VERY rare and I think I will not see it again in my life time, or the grade I feel is not correct. Then I break it out and re-submit.
I think there is not constancy on how toned coins are graded. I sometime think they penalize on darker toning (still really attractive) and have seen coins with really nice eye appeal with a lot of surface chatter grade higher.
I still buy the coin and then look at the grade.
Really like all of the coins you posted but the 1700 Shilling is really something if the pic is accurate.
I don't even collect Dom Rep but when I saw these coins I had to have them. The toning and cart wheel are over the top. On a bad day I thought 66 and a good day who knows. Both came back as 65. I think the dark toning did them in.
I agree that these are attractive personally, especially the reverses. The difficulty with dark and splotchy toning though is that it mutes luster - that’s why it starts to limit grade at a certain point.
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Nice thread. Thanks for posting. I like more toning personally, but you've seen these all in hand and made the most informed choice.
My current "Box of 20"
Yes, I keep them, but it is because most of them are not very expensive and I cant be bothered to use ebay to sell them.
Coinsof1984@martinb6830 on twitter
my favorite coins are dates/types that are unknown in mint state, and then I wait for the best un-messed one in existence
As a bonus example to add. A coin I decided against bidding on.
AU55
VS
MS62
I own the AU55. The MS62 came up for auction at Stacks and I just couldn't bring myself to chase it despite the higher grade. The crud in the lettering, dark toning, planchet flaws, scratches on neck, and to top it off I just wasn't confident it was deserving of the MS62 grade. The hair points of the hair looked rubby to me in a way that put me off. I knew it would be a substantial cost to buy, and this example is not one I would want to buy twice in that grade.
This however ended up being a slight detriment for me to pass on since the winner took the #1 spot on the registry I previously held in 2024.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/british-type-sets/british-denomination-type-sets/british-shillings-type-set-circulation-strikes-1660-1966/2883
I have a small chance to retake #1 if I find a nice looking AU58 in the future but they have been very scarce to market in that grade and above. Tough decisions and even though I am now #2 I stand behind my decision and will continue to focus on eye appeal.
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The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
Sometimes the eye appeal just speaks to you. Here is a PEI cent in PCGS SP63 (medal alignment). The SP64 and SP65 examples of PEI cents that I have seen are ugly in comparison.
http://www.victoriancent.com
What an enjoyable read!
It is always interesting to learn about the different approaches people take when faced with decisions on what to include in a collection.
Similar to what others have stated, my own decision-making process has changed over time. I was quite ruthless initially. Duplicates were not tolerated, and acquisitions were viewed as an act of replacement.
The approach led to some hard decisions. Coins were sold that, in hindsight, I wish I had retained. I started putting off these hard decisions and, in doing so, eventually found it possible to appreciate one example for its eye appeal as much as I appreciated another example for its conditional rarity.
I will now retain a duplicate for as long as I appreciate it. If I pick up a coin and no longer feel a thrill or the joy of reminiscence, it gets banished. There is a dedicated box for these banished coins, and once sufficient material accumulates it gets taken to the next coin show or consigned to auction.
As far as the OPs request for feedback… I will say it is hard to characterise any decision as ‘better’ or ‘worse’. Even though I regret parting with a few coins, these ‘bad’ decisions have led to new experiences – the entertainment of watching a coin sold move through the marketplace and being able to share a story of ‘catch and release’ were unexpected positives from ‘bad’ decisions. I chalk it up as all part of the hobby!
Well said, well said! I have had these moments during my college years. I do look back and have some regrets for around 2 or 3 graded coins. But I like your perspective and I agree with it! Gotta think big picture as always, going forward!
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_
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I would like all of the coins you decided to dump. 😁
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Also, why does the registry set not include the earlier shillings? Isn’t there only a handful earlier than what the set has? No Charles I? No Elizabeth?! I don’t get that.
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A nice 58 always beats a scruffy 61/62, right?
A little off-topic, sorry... but high-end Dominican is in SUCH demand now - you did right. Those reverses, if accurately depicted, are amazing.
Do you know the backstory of these pieces? Were they from some kind of original set or an early secondary market "denomination set" or ??????
The best I can surmise is that PCGS simply will not do slots for the hammered pieces. I guess it's just incredibly tedious to add the many different types and varieties. I have asked about it and been met with silence. I do own the hammered pieces myself, but they are not featured as you can see. I also disagree with the name of the set which is why my set specifies "Monarch Set" since a true type set would include loads more coins even a major type set would have multiple coins per monarch in truth. Anyway, the short scope allows me to be more focused, so I don't mind as much.
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The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
That makes sense. I would be happier if they just had a shilling monarch set. I’m glad this one exists though.
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I always find the tracking of ex-Clio coins to be a fascinating pastime. I am also blown away at the prices sellers are able to get for my coins I was unable to achieve haha.
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The best collecting goals lie right on the border between the possible and the impossible. - Andy Lustig, "MrEureka"
Some splendid coins in here!
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