Venturing Back into the Trading Card hobby - questions/discussion
aburdman
Posts: 9 ✭
As a child of the 90's my dad went thru collection phase for roughly 5-7 years and purchased all sorts of "junk wax" era hockey, basketball, football, baseball cards. He recently gave me the collection which is sizable enough to keep me busy. The fun of sorting thru the cards has reignited the "hobby" for me and before jumping in head first I've done a lot of "study" to sort of educate myself on the world it is today- Which is a big difference!
Just hoping for some Q/A/Discussion
My initial question is: what stops people from merely just grading "everything" they have, to up the value of their raw cards? I understand the risk of receiving a low grade for a card in not so good shape, the investment, time it takes etc. But it seems to me there are a lot of "good-great" shape raw cards being sold (a lot of my inherited collection is in good-great shape due to proper storage).
As for selling graded cards (once you get them graded) is it a matter of supply/demand to attract a buyer?
Example: 90's Scott Niedermayer/Peter Forsberg rookie in perfect condition (hypothetically) I send to get graded and up the value of such assuming it grades 9-10....seems like a good investment but a the same time it doesn't increase the value that much, will take a while to sell...(money lost on time).....the grading "world" seems obscure to me. To the point where my opinion is to only grade unique cards and not merely a Eric Lindros Rookie from the Score set (which overproduced).
Curious if anyone can spill their thoughts on the above...and help me connect some dots and fill some gaps.
Thanks all!
Comments
Welcome!
What you do to enjoy the hobby is nobodies business but your own.
Want to get all your cards graded? Go for it.
For me, on junk wax, I set aside the rookies and superstar/HOF players that appear to be in nm/mt condition. Then I check on ebay under sold listings. At that point I decide if I want to send in a card for grading.
Keep in mind grading fees, shipping costs and supplies, and the fact that eBay will take about 20% of the price your card goes for.
I would advise to send in a small submission of only your cards that you feel are "perfect". Especially watch for print spots and surface issues. Of course corners, edges and centering must be perfect. This will tell you if you are a good judge of how your cards will grade.
You mentioned Lindros, Forsberg and Niedermayer, I don't see any of their cards selling for over $50.00, and only in a "10". I am a big hockey fan, but not many buyers out there for anyone not named Gretzky.
My final thought (and why I haven't submitted anything for quite a while) is that PSA doesn't like to give out "10's" and that's all people want to buy. An example would be the 1989 Fleer Griffey Jr rookie, in a 10 it's a $100-$125.00 (or so) card, if you get anything below a 10, you have lost money on the card.
Again, welcome feel free to ask questions. Asking about a specific card and posting a scan will help with feedback.
Have FUN collecting!
It comes down to math and time.
welcome aboard!! I have found that good looking cards usually receive an 8. really really nice cards will get a 9, and 10's are somewhat "lucky"
definitely temper your expectations on your first few submissions. otherwise you will likely be disappointed.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Thanks for the reply! It's been a blast looking thru the old collection.
To your mention of Lindros, Forsberg, Niedermayer, those are the scenarios I've been confused with...I follow a sports card guy on Instagram and he will post the "top sales" for the month, one post he had was 90's hockey....Upper Deck Jagr rookie card, (10 grade) of course went for good money...I'm like, I've got those!
Just hard to scale, there is so much volume out there as it is for this era....I'm sitting on multiple rookies of 90's stars....would get good grades, but if it's not a 10, seems like a waste.....and a gamble at the least....half of it being finding a buyer for a "10"....let alone getting the 10 grade.
I've gone back and forth. My head says to stick with the "raw" world of collecting overall.
I'm sitting on some nice Gretzky cards of that day, special inserts and the like, that may be the ones I grade and try to flip for profit.
Aside from the junk-wax volume my dad purchased oddity items that he'd find in his travels. Some cards of star players, that I can't find for sale anywhere...do I grade those and put em in the market place? Leave em raw and put em in the market place? Such a weird niche now with the grading it's hard to figure out (for me anyways).
From the 90's hockey stars you're referencing, I think we are around the same hobby timeline.
First, because of the massive overproduction from 1990-1994, raw hockey from that era is still very cheap, even for the top rookies. IMHO, it is not worth collecting raw hockey from that period. There maybe some interesting inserts but the best hockey inserts came after 1994. On the flip side, PSA 10's are very reasonable and makes for an economical way to build up a nice collection. I wouldn't bother with PSA 9's or lower grades, you can get PSA 10's of top RCs for less than $50 except for a few like Jagr.
I've been playing the Hockey HOF speculation game. The hockey HOF process is somewhat closed compared to the other major sports. Last year I was surprised to see Pierre Turgeon and Mike Vernon make it in. Both were good players but I never thought of either of them as HOF level players. Their cards spiked after they made it in, I don't think many people were expecting it.
The early 1990's era has a lot of lower priced rookies in PSA 10 that have a HOF shot - Mark Recchi (577 goals), Alexander Mogilny (473), John LeClair (406), Peter Bondra (503), Jeremy Roenick (513) and Curtis Joseph (454 wins, 2.79 GAA). You can get these in PSA 10 for way less than $50. I would focus on 1990 OPC Premier or 1990 Upper Deck. My best bets are Roenick, Mogilny, and CuJo for the next ones to get in.
You can also look up cards with PSA's Population Report. This will help you with how many have been graded and how many 10's there are.
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On some "oddball" cards, if they're the only 10, they go for good $. Pictured below is a Kirby Puckett card I lost out on. Never thought it would go that high. It's the only 10.
Hockey cards are a buyers market right now. I have been picking up Mike Modano's cards in PSA 10 for about 1/4 of what they were going for a couple of years ago.
Gretzky cards and Lemieux rookies are worth grading, but again, they need To be perfect. People are just not buying 9's, even if there are only couple of 10's graded (or even NO 10's).
Joe - I still come across unopened early 1990's hockey in quantity when hobby hunting. It's so cheap in PSA 10s, that I started buying the top rookies for my PC. I remember trading a stack of these for a stack of 1989 Score Troy Aikman RCs at the Livonia show when I was a kid. Just like the Nordiques, trading Lindros helped move my collection forward.
Great example. I have a good amount of these specific cards and more Big-E rookies, that "could" grade high. But from there if I'm lucky to get a 10, seems like I'd be sitting and waiting it out for a buyer. Or I sit on raw Big-E cards forever...
This is very helpful. So it seems the "population" is going to be a factor in how well whatever I want to grade- will move. So high pop- 10 graded cards, maybe I won't water down anymore than it already is.
If any of the Gretzky, Mario, and RCs have a shot at a 10, you will at least break close to even at worst
Some great comments here. I think the most important part of it is what your goals and interests are. People can collect for so many reasons. Different gameplan based on what you hope to get out of it. If you are asking what you should do, there really isnt anything you should do other than what you want. There are no cards you should sell unless you feel like it. There is nothing wrong with just appreciating the cards in their raw form, pulling them out every once in a while to appreciate them. Grading isn't necessary. If you want to sell them, it can help. It depends on the card. If you just like the idea of seeing your cards slabbed and could enjoy the excitement of getting the news and the cards back seeing if you have a winner, I get that. I think that is fun. But its not necessarily like seeing a financial investor and getting advice on when to sell or buy. You can just do whatever pleases you. There is nothing wrong with wanting it to be about selling some cards for cash. I think there is some great advice here. Use eBay sales to get an idea of whether its worth it. Can be a fun project gathering that info. If a PSA 10 sells for $25 and a PSA 9 sells for $7, probably not a good candidate to submit for the purpose of making money. Especially if 10s are not being handed out for that card much these days. But you are allowed to grade it just cause you want to keep it. As mentioned POP report is a valuable tool too but tricky. There can be a low population because it is hard to get a nice grade. Or it can be low pop or no pop cause noone on the planet values the card in graded condition. 😄 I also agree start small. Because initially in the 90s our view of grading was different. We can call something mint left and right. Gem Mint. Pristine. Then we learn about the strictness and the different grading standards of companies like PSA Beckett SGC. That first sub can be a disappointment and a shock to the system. So 15 that first time may be better than 175.
Welcome aburdman !!
I just joined about 3 days ago and 'love' this place.
Should have done so 40 years ago when I really got into sport card collecting.
As for getting all my cards graded can't afford to have 1/8 -1/4 million cards graded.
$$$ is the primary factor. along with the fact that the majority of the cards will never be worth the grading cost.
Also unopened boxes and cases as well.' many people like to buy unopened packs in hopes of finding a 'gem card'
Even ungraded packs and foil packs can bring in some serious $$ ... ie: 79 Topps Hockey, 86 Fleer Basketball, 2000 Bowman Football and like. Obviously graded packs sell for a lot more.
I've just started to get my cards graded, like what I think maybe the better, more expensive ones.
Jordan, Brady, Gretzky rookie's and then working my way down to the 50's and 60's. Williams, Mays, Aaron, Mantle's etc.
The PSA Price Guide .. I find very helpful in determining what I should send in for grading.
I really don't collect as an investment hobby.
All my completed sets (having a few cards graded in each) and loose singles with some value get graded and will be left to my Grandson. (probably about your age 30 or so )
Some duplicates and not great condition cards I sell to help support my grading frenzy.
I like to follow the value (suspense in grading by PSA, BGS, etc.) and make it a lot easier for my Grandson to sell if he ever decides to do that.
Not many people will pay premium dollars for a premium card which is NOT graded.
Graded cards are considered the "gold standard" in trading card collecting circles.
Grading your cards is the only way to ensure best market value.
Remember the vast majority of cards are not worth grading.
I'm not exactly sure of the amount but ....
" PSA graded cards appear to sell for a significant premium over other grading card companies."
FredJRI
Great conversation here everyone! Really appreciate it so far. Still sifting thru the collection. So many 90's "stars" from all sports, but they seem to have low/little value. At first I'd get excited finding a Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, Wayne Gretzky, Emmit Smith, Shaq, Iverson, etc card, only to look it up and find out 25 of the same card (raw) is selling on Ebay for $2.19. So I throw it back into the "discard/sell-for cheap" pile figuring grading would be pointless. (spend 25-30 bucks to have the cards value be $40). It's kind of a bummer. Some let down, some "meh". Makes me wonder about the impact grading has had short-term/long-term on the card business. Still fun, but the air is slowly being let out the balloon.
The other thing I'm noticing is that the "cool" cards are the hot ticket regardless. Holographic, shiny, etc...Basically the special inserts seem to be desired most. Having a standard, Jagr, Forseberg, Lindros, Strahan, etc- rookie...is pretty basic (multiples selling on Ebay). Just makes it harder to gauge and tempers the excitement level.
Classic example of the "yes-no-maybe-so" card market right now:
Jaromir Jagr Upper Deck Rookie. I've uncovered about 4-6 of these sorting thru my collection. 2-3 are grading candidates based on their storage and condition, definitely a shot at a 10, a shot. Anyways.
Here's the "game".
Ebay has multiple graded of these cards for sale.
PSA 10 listed at $350.00, $36.00, $92.50
PSA 9 $250.00 and one Buy it Now for $20.00!
ETC.
Then there are a zillion "raw" for $3-4. (All of those are listed at "near mint", which begs an entire new topic of, why not just purchase in bulk these bargain bin raw cards and grade em', up your chances at a high grade PSA etc..for the resell)
What kind of market is this!?!?!? I have less clue what to do with these cards, the more I learn!
When checking on eBay prices, I recommend looking at sold results (check "Completed Items" and "Sold Items" on the search filter options). This will give you a better idea of what a card's true market value is. Sale prices/asking prices can be all over the map (like the Jagr card you mentioned).
For example, the last 10 1990 Upper Deck Jaromir Jagr cards, #356, in a PSA 9, sold for about $15-20 each. Great card, but not selling for $250!
Good advice, I have utilized that to get 'true' value.
That said, it's interesting to see what sellers are "wanting" and listing vs. what CLEARLY is the value (based on sales). This behavior tells me there are a lot of unknowns, but also the volatility of certain card markets. PSA doesn't seem to be helping the cause either. The gimmick idea of grading is a hit and helpful in some ways but it's given way to a lot of speculation and scrutiny.
They are taking (Jagr Upper Deck cards as the example) a watered down market of "raw" cards and now just watering down with PSA's...
Again, just conversation and slowly forming my opinion so I can find my way back to the card market, but also find my "niche" in it.
If you can buy a card in PSA 10 for $36, like that Jagr, then it doesn’t make sense to grade. Even if it looks PERFECT you’re getting a 10 less than 25% of the time. So it’s a losing proposition. That’s why you see all the raw cards for sale and folks aren’t scooping them all to send to PSA.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
This is actually a very helpful (new) way of me to look at things! Start with the PSA 10 and work backwards from there. Simple yet great point. That actually helps a lot!
YW.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Welcome aburdman! Don't know you're first name.
You hit the nail on the head here.
I still enjoy opening packs of Chrome, Heritage, Bowman e.g and taking the time to sort while watching certain youtube channels. And cards are not in my main focus.
I've been collecting since 1990 - so I would like to - perhaps - give you some simple advice since it's tempting - when reentering - to go all nuts/OCD in the hobby.
It was once said that there's a "thin line between a hobby and insanity." I'm in total agreement.
So - here's my simple suggested rules.
Rule #1: establish a very narrow FOCUS after sorting thru the collection (this will keep you from trying to corner the market on everything and anything.
Rule #2: establish a BUDGET that you can comfortably live with (this will keep you from waking up screaming into the night after you received your credit card bill!).
Rule #3: Never, never, never, ever, ever, ever break rule #1 or 2!!!
This to many may seem elementary but many of my friends here will attest that it's easy to go nuts when entering/reentering our hobby. 👍
I wish you all the best and don't hesitate to ask questions in your search for knowledge. Our hobby is so vast and has an incredible heritage.
Well said. Simple advice but good advice. I think that's part of my issue right now is I'm looking at many different sports cards, players etc.
In my head, as I'm ripping thru cards....."Hakeem Olajuwan...oh he was a top big....this card is in great condition! Barry Sanders, nice! Ryan Sandberg....prettu sure he's an HOF....Peter Forsberg rookies! " All go in the keep pile
Then go back to the keep pile...start looking up prices/etc...."Theres 37 of these Hakeem cards listed for $1.69.... great. What if I grade it? Dont see any comps....must not be worth grading then?? Ryan Sanberg cards- same thing...." and on and on....
I'd like to "purge" this collection and maybe focus on two sports...Football/Hockey (dabble in Basketball)....My "plan" was to use these as a way to fund new collections...but to sell these cards off for 1-2-3 bucks, list em....etc....my time would be worth giving em to someone else to bother with that has the care and wherewithal to make the nickels and dimes add up.
The good news is I've got a stash of nice Gretzky's that were kept perfect in terms of condition (not counting the framing PSA etc...stuff) and some other legit demand players that would get me started.
Side note....
Another thing that's odd to me is for example. Shaq stuff. I've got a lot of Shaq rookie cards from the "Classic" sets...thinking those would be nice finds....but they are worthless..... yet you hear Shaq rookies are valuable. And that's the thing I got to decipher and get thru my head......These youtubers and the like say "Player X is hot right now.... or is always a good seller etc..." That doesn't mean ALL cards of that player....it comes down to specific card of that player. Same with Griffy Jr. Bo Jackson, etc... and on and on. I've got a lot of them but they are pointless to even list.
Extremely fat chance of getting a Gretzky, Jordan even Henderson graded as a 10 these days IMHO.
Good luck regardless of your collecting goal.s