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imagine paying $3,600 for this
galaxy27
Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭✭✭
or in the case of another dude, a cool 54 grand
Tom Brady with the douche move of the week, signing his name like a 3-yr-old for people who dropped a lot of coin
so unsightly that they can't be authenticated
watch the vid
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this happened over the weekend. has been all over the brady fb pages. there is a lot more to this story...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I don't do FB so this is the first I've heard of it.
I'm not sure what more could be to the story that would justify those horrific scribbles.
I would be steaming mad.
Here's a comparison to how he usually signs, that is awful.
Yeah. If he isn't in the mood to do a signing then he should just say no.
Obviously people cherish their Collectables and for him to not realize that and put a little more effort into something like this that people paid for is pretty rude.
precisely
VIP or gratis, i fail to come up with a justifiable reason for ever allowing crap like that to roll off your fingers
in Brady's defense, "efforts" like that aren't limited to him. many modern-day signatures are the absolute worst. i fully understand it's gotta get old slapping your John Hancock down hundreds of times a day, but at the END of the day you're living a charmed freaking life and an extra two seconds per graph in return for that charmed life isn't going to kill you.
Arnold Palmer's mother instilled in him at a young age that whenever he signed his name, it had better be legible. he took that to heart and put forth max effort any time he had ink in his hand. even in his final years that old man was trying his very best to dish out the best possible graph for a seeker. but he was old school, and we all know there's a monumental difference between guys like him and athletes of today. new school is synonymous with pampered behavior, a sense of entitlement, and often times not giving a shit.
https://www.pgatour.com/article/news/long-form/2018/03/04/written-from-the-heart-arnold-palmer-signature-most-treasured-golf
That really is sick...and unacceptable.
Very surprising for a guy like Tom Brady who took pride is working hard and doing things right. But obviously not with his signature, which he is getting paid to do. Quite shameful really.
For all of his greatness on the football field, Brady does seem to have a bit of a screw loose at times. Remember that time he tossed his young daughter off a steep cliff, maybe around 50 feet high. may have been higher, outside into a pool stream of running water. His daughter could have been seriously injured from that if she hit the water the wrong way. There is no sane reason to do that.
Also the time he threw the Super Bowl trophy while in a boat in a large harbor, from his boat to another boat which I think was around 50 or so feet away. I think he threw it to Gronk or Edelman. What was the point of that? If he missed the mark, they may have never found that trophy buried in the mud of a harbor.
I still like Brady and consider myself a fan. But outside of football, he really needs to smarten up at times.
BTW - What could be done, and I have a feeling what Brady may do, is either reimburse the collector for the price of those ruined items, or perhaps somehow personally authenticate the items himself thru photographs, etc. Sounds crazy but maybe even carefully re-sign the items. Might make for an interesting LOA with the note of two Brady signatures on the items, the illegible one and the legible one. Might even increase the normal value?
i will try to accurately give you guys a cliff notes version. there are people fired up on both sides of this.
to begin, this was a 2 day business conference with a bunch of different speakers. Tommy had done another conference for them down in Mexico last summer I believe it was. at that conference he had pre signed some items for the VIPs to be handed out after the conference. those items were basic fan stuff like photos and plastic footballs.
Brady agreed to do another conference in miami. there were 100 vip tickets sold. vips were to be able to attend the 2 day conference, get a cruise of the Miami beach area, a dinner with food/drinks provided, a guided museum tour, a meet and greet/photo op with Tommy and an autograph. this package for $3600.
Some Brady Memorabilia collectors with really advanced collections found out about this 2nd conference and it was posted on the brady fb groups and a group decided to treat this like a private memorabilia signing. Which it was not. They showed up with some crazy/amazing game used mem for Brady to sign. i know of one collector/dealer who bought 6 VIP "seats" so he could get 6 autos. Why would they do this? the ONLY way to get Tommys auto on game used mem is to go directly through Fanatics at a charge of $10,000 per item. The auto can double, triple or quadruple the value of a game used item. Brady is also not allowed to sign any cards at all per his fanatics contract. one "collector" showed up with multiple bowman chrome rookies and a Chrome refractor rookie worth around 25K.
Basically, these guys were trying to turn this business conference into a private signing with a very steep discount. some guys were figuring the actual auto portion of the VIP ticket was probably around $1k-$1.5k as all the other perks were included and a photo op with Tommy is nearly $2k. They were trying to get game used mem signed at an 80-90% discount.
these guys all know how private signings go, and they had plenty of warning signs this was not one. there were not authenticators present (JSA, BGS etc.) they knew Brady cant sign cards. they knew the prices for him to sign game used. there was a guy who attended that put out a video on X that he fully understood the risk of attending so he brought cards that could be wiped if the sig was wrong.
Bradys contract for the event was specific in that he was to sign a combination of 100 photos and copies of his tb12 book before the event to be given out later to the VIP's. apparently, when he showed up to the room where he was supposed to sign, instead of a pile of photos and books, there was a full array of mem for him to sign. the "promoter" was overheard telling him to hurry up and "sign fast as s**t" So, Brady used his "tornado tom" sig, the one you get at training camp or for informal events and not his full private signing autograph.
the guys should have known the risk they were taking. They were trying to get a very steep discount on some autos and they got exactly what they paid for in my opinion.
I am sure there are some things i have forgotten and left out, this is just going by memory. there are probably dozens of threads on the various brady pages.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
oh, another thing i just remembered. most of the guys brought their own markers/paint pens as well as sticky notes for inscriptions/auto placement directions. apparently the promotor removed all the sticky notes and pens before tom got there.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Still no excuse in my opinion. If you're gonna sign something like this, especially when you're getting paid, do it the right way.
@stevek you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I wasnt in the room, so i dont know what the "vibe" was in there, I can only speculate. I do know that Tom knows what his autograph is worth and I would bet that when he saw all that stuff in there he was pi**ed thinking these high end guys were trying to either get a deep deep discount or make $$$ off the sigs in an end around move.
they got autos, they just got the Tornado Tom version.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Oh poor poor Tom, to sign the items the right way, the way it should be done. He may have had to spend, what, an extra ten minutes, maybe less. Oh the horror of it all. Where is the humanity?
Brady is already tycoon rich, and he's getting richer by the day. Which is fine by me. More power to him. But if your speculation is correct, if Tom is bugged by those profiting off his autograph. Then frankly this would be another example of a screw loose. Why should Tom Brady give a rat's arze in yell if somebody is profiting off his autograph?
I, of course, have no idea what goes on in tommys head. I do know that there are many athletes who do not like people profiting off from their autos. Kareem A-J is a prime example. it is the same exact idea as PSA having a tiered pricing structure for cards.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Every time I sign a check, it shows how much I appreciate how much the recipient either bettered my life in some way, or made me money.
One would think that an Abdul-Jabbar, Brady, etc, would appreciate the fans who made their lives better by giving them fame and fortune. Sadly, too many of these celebrities don't feel that way.
One thing I've never done, and I believe should not be done, is bug any celebrity eating in a restaurant, out in a public area walking around, etc, for their autograph. That to me is out of line. I became friendly with Steve Van Buren, we were on a first name basis, and never once asked him for his autograph. I just thought it would be rude.
I think I've already made my point on this matter, so I'll leave it at that.
At one time I owned about 12 Brady autos that were mostly Topps on card with no stickers and as the years went by you could see Tom's signature changing over time. I came close to shipping a 2002 Topps SB Game Used Goalpost card back when he was charging $1200 for an autograph and I didn't follow through with it because I was worried about having the card come back with $1200 scribble.
Charging 3X that amount and drawing two squibbles that don't even remotely resemble a T or a B. yeah I could see where the owners of all of that cool stuff were unhappy with how they presented afterwards. It stinks but that's the chance you take when you pay exorbitant prices for a signature.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Take a Mantle or Babe Ruth autograph. Of course two of the iconic autographs in sports.
They always signed their names clearly. For some reason, Mantle changed his signature style around 1953 or whenever, but both styles are great.
A neighbor of mine has a Muhammad Ali signed boxing glove, not match used. Not sure what year Ali signed it, it wasn't that legible. But it still looked better than that Brady abomination, and Ali had Parkinson's syndrome.
Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, Harmon Killebrew, even sometimes crabby Willie Mays signed their names beautifully.
People who accept initials as a form of an autograph are just encouraging the modern lazy athlete to be inconsiderate.
If you cannot sign your entire name for a fan, just don't sign.
Taking money for initials that aren't even legible?
Pound sand you jerks.
Former Twin Michael Cuddyer tells a story about a time when several Twins and retired Twins were at a table signing. At one point Harmon got up and said "Who's signature is this?" Cuddyer said it was his. Harmon said in no uncertain terms that was unacceptable, do a better job! People have a right to be able to read what you have signed.
Class!
harmon killebrew had one of the very nicest sigs of any athlete i have ever seen. another good one is Andre dawson.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
George Brett is pretty famous for giving heat to people getting signatures just to sell.
I’m surprised Brady’s signature costs $10k.
Sounds like some people tried to take advantage of the situation and got what they got. Bummer.
The whole chicken-scratch-initial-modern signatures are pretty ridiculous.
This does nothing for all of those people that just spent a boatload of cash on Brady's auto but I'd bet that his autograph will get cleaned up over time now that he's out of football. Many of the players mentioned above all had neat, legible signatures that were likely perfected over decades after playing.
Brady has been out of football for just one year and probably didn't do many autograph signing events throughout the years. if I had to guess, I'd bet that he committed to maybe 2-3 events a year at most. As he goes forward and the number of those events increases he'll probably clean up his sig over time.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I am probably alone in this respect, but i refuse to spend my money on anything "autographed" with initials.
That certainly does put a different light on things for sure...always two sides to a story.
I can't imagine Tom was at all pleased at effectively being sandbagged at this event by collectors who should have known better. These weren't amateur collectors looking for autos.
Probably would have been best for Brady to simply refuse to sign under those circumstances or have the event organizers intervene on his behalf.
As these advanced collectors know, part of the significant value tied to Brady signed stuff to begin with is due to the discretion and the restrictions under which he will sign.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I agree, it probably would have been best if Tommy had just refused to sign at all. some of the guys on the various FB pages have speculated that he may have been afraid that if he refused to sign at all that he would have been in violation of his contract and not been paid. that is just speculation.
From what I have read by people in the "auto" room, it was very chaotic and Brady was definitely sandbagged when he arrived. and yes, by severely limiting his autos he has created a significant demand and value for them. similar to Bill Russell before he got old and let the floodgates open on his graph.
again, these guys knew exactly what they were doing and that there was significant risk involved.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Piece was on the local news yesterday in ATL about this. Just glossed over the story and said these guys were pissed they got lousy autos and were 'out of money' because of the sig quality.
Maybe next autograph session, Tom could just sign with an X and make it even easier for himself. 😆
After reading up.on this I can understand it a little better. The problem with it all.is how valuable his auto is and these guys looking to amplify the value of their items.
I've long ago gotten tired of the whole auto and collectibles world, the fraud and price gouging is too far over the top for my taste.
Brady never really signed a bunch of stuff for people and honestly I always kind of held it against him, not that I wanted a signing from him but he could have signed a lot more than just at paid events
Poor, poor Tommy. I feel SO sorry for him.
The guy should sign his full name (as should all the athletes) or should simply refuse to sign.
The guys who promote signings should politely let people know if there are limits to number and types of items allowed.
Just another example of how the old school, much lower paid athletes generally treated the fans better than the new breed of pampered millionaires.
I once knew an old man, long story won't tell it here, but he was one of the most honest men I've ever known. He passed a long time ago, a former high school principal in Philly.
As a kid, he used to attend the A's games in Philly, and Babe Ruth used to come in on the train. He said that before entering the stadium, Ruth used to be swarmed with kids asking for his autograph. Ruth always got there early knowing this would happen. He said that Ruth used to sign every single autograph for all the kids there before entering the stadium.
Not that i didn't believe him, of course I did, but he showed me his autograph collection which contained dozens of Babe Ruth autographs. And each one looked beautiful. And Ruth didn't receive a cent for any of it.
I like the sentiment of the story but I don’t want to do a disservice by assuming what the story is intended to say about Brady. What is the point you’re making?
That despite Brady being the GOAT in his sport, and Ruth in his, Tom Brady is no Babe Ruth when it comes to treatment of the fans.
Hard to make a direct comparison.
I think that the main change is the monetization of the memorabilia.
As an autograph collector I’ve had similar thoughts on the matter but I find that there’s more complexity to the situation than I would have expected to find when exploring it. While I don’t like the concept of for-profit memorabilia signing I also can understand that it creates an industry which makes these autographs available to a wider audience.
I have formed no conclusion but I appreciate your insight.
Babe Ruth never had social media where every single person that he didn't treat well can go and bitch.
Members here like to point out how some of us Pats fans here tend to hero worship Brady but to think that someone like Ruth or Mantle didn't do or say anything that pissed people off is honestly laughable.
Fans were unhappy with them too at some point, they just didn't have a platform to go complain on lol.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Ruth loved to party and also enjoyed womanizing. I'm sure at least some in the public didn't like him for that.
However we're talking about Brady and Ruth with their treatment of the fans regarding autographs. Ruth gets an A, Brady gets an F.
Ruth died with an A. Brady has time to improve on his F, if he gains the desire to do so.
Ruth and Mantle both had an active media and for profit opportunities. Sure it's gotten bigger today, of course, but back then wasn't exactly the stone age.
Ruth and Mantle both were prolific with getting paid for offering their names on company products, etc. And both until the day they died signed their names beautifully for their fans - the way it should expected to be.
While on the subject of Ruth autos,i don't know if you watch the Chasing Cardboard podcast on YT but they basically go around buying collections while getting to know the seller a bit and their most recent episode found a collection of old autographs that included this beautiful Ruth auto that PSA authenticated and slabbed.
if you've never seen their show its definitely worth the watch, imo. The Ruth was in EP47.
https://www.youtube.com/@CHASINGCARDBOARD/videos
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Sounds very interesting. I will check it out. 😊
As far as getting the word out immediately? Yes it was. Today you could take a crap and seconds later tell X amount of people about it on Twitter. 😉The "social media" gap between then and now is astronomical.
I'm not trying to rip Ruth here, just saying we don't know what he was really like. The hero worship levels for Ruth since his playing days are astronomically higher than Brady too. He did no wrong. Sure he did, he's human, we just never heard about it but like you said above, Ruth does get an A because he's long gone and we never did hear about it.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I've got no big problem at all with Tom Brady or anything he has done, on or off the field, up until this point. Although the incident as mentioned before, of him throwing his daughter into the water did bother me somewhat.
I just hope he's smart enough to realize that he F*ed up, and correct the situation in the future. Even correct the situation now, by allowing these fans to exchange the garbage sig for a proper sig. Perhaps no exchange needed at all, if it's just a straight sig on paper.
I think comparing Ruth signing autos back in the 20's-40's and current athletes having contracts for paid autos are two different worlds. Ruth was probably a great guy and generous, but when he was signing, there was not monetary recompense for autos. there was no real "value" to them. The modern autograph market is very robust and players/agents know it.
You can bet, that if Ruth and Williams and cobb and wagner were playing today they would all be signed to tristar or fanatics and be making BIG money on their sigs just like modern guys are.
I don't fault any modern athlete for selling their sigs. they know the value of it. I don't see a problem with anyone making money whenever they can. Mantle and Mays were 2 of the earliest to take advantage of their celebrity in that way.
KAJ even has his "agent" sit with him at the auto table and she will "grade" cards that he signs and there are significant upcharges according to what she deems the condition of the cards.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I didn't go back and re-read the posts. But I don't recall any posts disputing what you just stated.
The "dispute" is in the horrendous quality of these Brady autographs. I mean a first grader signs his name way better than this.
Bottom line - it's a defective product, plain and simple. Either a refund or replacement should be granted.
But first you have to reconcile the gap between "what they were entitled to under the agreement for the event." and "what they think they are entitled to.".
It sounds like they were (A) not entitled to autographs on the memorabilia they brought, but (B) the organizers did allow that memorabilia to be autographed. To accommodate (B) and allow for (A) the organizers specified to Brady that he should sign them fast, which produced (D) poor autographs.
There are still a few details which are not clear, but for anyone there who brought a "not technically allowed" piece of memorabilia, which was signed, kind of got what they deserved. Any while it messed up their item potentially and that sucks, it's a great lesson. You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit.
As far as who might be responsible and what information points to that party, I would start with the terms and conditions. The promoter, for example, by allowing the non-accepted memorabilia to be signed, and even directing Brady to do so, might be an "assumption of liability" depending on how they liability clause is written in the agreement. Usually those have the same boilerplate CYA such as "we cannot guarantee" and "we will do our best to ensure".
For Brady himself, it's a so-so move because it is part of his brand.
I only have the information on the forum here to go by, and not sure how accurate any of it is, but if it is what it is... I enjoy that these people tried to get more than they deserved and got what they deserved.
Time requirement needed to sign an autograph. Be in a chair ready for the item or media to be handed to you. The item is put into place. A pen or marker needs to be grabbed and held the right way. Then the pen or marker needs to be focused on the particular spot where the autograph is to be rendered. All that is perhaps 99% of the time necessary to autograph an item.
Once the ink starts flowing from a pen or marker, the time taken to sign a nice looking autograph, versus a ridiculous looking sloppy TB, cannot possibly be more than a second.
So let's say there are 500 autographs to be produced. In real time that's around eight minutes worth of actual work needed to perform a first class professional job versus garbage. There really are no valid excuses for this hiss poor autograph session, here or anywhere. Unless a player just really doesn't give a chit about his adoring fans in this regard.
Chas. Gehringer
My favorite auto will post a pic this evening
Edit- if I ever get off work. I have a Perez Steele auto of him, he signed it Chas. I guess since he had such a long name if he signed it Charlie…. I’ll just find an auto online and post it
I've seen that "Chas" before on a number of vintage signatures from all walks of life. Not sure at all why that abbreviation was a fairly common practice?
A+ in penmanship, and yeah that was a common abbreviation