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Best 3 outcome hitter of all time
craig44
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in Sports Talk
The Gallo discussion got me to thinking about high strikeout guys and 3 outcome hitters. I didn't want to hijack that thread, so here we go. Who was the greatest 3 outcome hitter ever?
I say Mark McGwire. he had more extra base hits than singles. only had 785 singles in his career. 1600k's. .263 BA.
now the good stuff. .394 OPB. .588 SLG. .982 OPS. 163 OPS+
Mac was a monster and more productive than traditional high BA guys like Gwynn, Boggs and Carew even though he struck out a whole bunch and had a much lower BA. I would think Killebrew would be number 2?
what do you think.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
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I think it could have the same perspective bias as the other thread without a good definition of “best”.
Are you thinking run production or is this more individual like OBP?
The Incredible Hulk looked more human than steroid Mac at his roided up peak.
There’s a reason he’s not HOF material.
Barry Bonds with Roids, Ted Williams without
run production is awfully dependant on teammates. I would go with more individual numbers like OBP, OPS etc.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
going to try to stay out of the whole PED thing on this one. just straight stats.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I second McGwire. In his prime too he was hitting at a rate very few ever have.
Not sure what you mean by "3 outcome".
.274% of Killebrew's hits were home runs.
McGwire before steroids was .312%, after (guessing) he started juicing it jumped to .461%!
That's being overly generous towards McGwire.
If you limit McGwire's numbers to include 1986-1994, he's down to .285%.
Looking at these pre and post steroid numbers make me sick!
To see McGwire above Killebrew on these lists makes me ill as well.
by 3 outcome, I mean BB, K or HR.
someone like kingman, gallo, rob deer etc. I was just thinking about who the greatest hitter of this type was.
I think Reggie could be put into this type of player as well.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Even Schmidt too as he walked much more than Reggie.
good point on Schmidt. He would definitely be part of this group.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I believe the convention is such that a player fits this label (loosely) if they have (HR + BB + SO) / PA ~= 0.5
I doubt there are many players with long careers who get to that 50% mark.
Then I suppose you're looking for players who were near the top in OBP/OPS which means that the HR + BB overshadowed the SO.
So
Rob Deer was ~49%
McGwire was ~46%
Stanton is ~46%
Trout is ~43%
Babe Ruth was ~40%
Reggie Jackson was ~40% (I was surprised he wasn't higher actually)
Killebrew was ~39%
Sosa was ~39%
Delgado was ~38%
But. I think the best 3-outcome guy was non-other than...
Jim Thome was ~48% With a career .402 OBP and 147 OPS+
I could consider that the best of the guys I've thought of so far. Side note. I forgot to include IBB so the percentages are a little bit off (lower than actual).
Here's what I found on Killebrew, Reggie, Schmidt and Kingman;
Killebrew 1959-1975; 9553 PA, 562HR (.0588), 1606SO (.16), 1536BB (.16).
Reggie 1968-1987; 11283PA, 562HR (.049), 2551SO (.22), 1365BB (.12)
Mike Schmidt 1973-1989; 10022PA, 547HR, (.054), 1868SO, (.18), 1502BB, (.149).
Kingman 1962-1986; 7301PA. 436HR (.059), 1781SO (.24), 599BB (.08)
Killebrew pretty much sweeps as far as hitting the most HR per PA,(Kingman, with no old man years does BARELY beat Harmon), walking the most per PA and striking out the least per PA.
Harmon Killebrew........better than most of you probably thought. 🤔😎😁
Thome barely beats Killebrew in HR per PA and BB per PA, but struck out almost 25% of the time to Harmon's 17%.
Of all these guys, Killebrew's strikeout to walk ratio is by far the best.
Go Harmon, go Harmon, go Harmon, 😃
Hard to avoid the "PED thing" when you look at how much better these guys got when juicing.
Harmon was a monster, no doubt.
they didn't call him Killer for nothing!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
good call on Thome. I still take Mac (.394 OBP and 163 OPS+), but Thome was great too.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I think Cecil Fielder could be added to the list as well. He walked more than I thought. OBP was around .100 better than BA.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Bonds was never a strikeout guy which I think seems to be part of the requirement. He struck out 102 times once his rookie year and after that never more than 93 and only over 90 3 times the rest of his career
Yep. I posted without actually reading the requirements
Definitely a great pick for the other 2 outcomes though
I dont think hes been mentioned yet, but Adam Dunn is probably the poster child of a successful true 3 outcome hitter, 8 seasons with over a 100 walks including leading the league 2 times and 11 seasons with over 150 strikeouts including leading the league 4 times.
The Mick was just over 40%
He doesn't want you to talk about the past
Dunn might be the best example of the worst 3 true outcome hitter. He might have the highest percentage of strikeouts of any challenger. You’re right
The definition of three outcome hitter is hit, walk or strikeout. You have to strikeout a lot, walk a lot, and still get hits to be a three outcome hitter.
The question asks. Who is the Best 3-outcome hitter. So. There must be a worst.
Is it when a players particular distribution of those outcomes leads to a higher OPS+ (best) or a lower OPS+ (worst)? Same but for OBP? Ratio of H to SO? Last name starts with a ‘D’?
What determines that, is my question. Help me Basebal21. You’re my only hope!
Lol go get some fresh air.
3 outcome hitters do all three.
McGwire didnt strike out enough until his final years, Stanton doesnt walk enough, Ruth didnt strike out enough, Sosa didnt walk enough, Trout really only had one bad season for strikeouts and another that would qualify. 100-120 strikeouts is average
Thome was a good pick. Theres simply not that many actual three outcome guys. Theres a a ton of two outcome guys in which case the answer is Bonds or Ruth, but theres only a few players that do all three where yes Adam Dunn would be in the conversation of a true you get a ball smashed, a walk or a strikeout hitter that was actually good.
Ok. I took your advice and did a little outdoor work to get the kitchen and grill ready for summer. With fresh air and fresh eyes I can now see what you’re saying. I agree completely.
Now if this damn rain delay would end I can sit out here and watch the Brewers.
FWIW I'd go with Ted Williams and Babe Ruth
Absolutely loved watching Ted play left field at Fenway ad hitting. ( Yes, I've been around a whle ..lololol )
N, ,I don't recall Babe playing......lololol
FredfromRI
Please clarify ": 3 Outcome Hitter"
Now if you mean ... Three True Outcomes (TTO) refers to a specific group of hitters who consistently produce outcomes that do not involve defenders. These outcomes include strikeouts, walks, and home runs. Essentially, TTO hitters tend to swing for the fences, draw walks, or strike out, with little emphasis on putting the ball in play for fielders to handle.
Here are a few notable TTO hitters:
Mike Napoli:
TTO Percentage: 44.75%
Career Stats: .246/.346/.475 triple slash, 297 home runs, 650 walks, and 1468 strikeouts.
Napoli played a significant role in several playoff runs, including the 2013 World Series championship for the Boston Red Sox. His peak featured tremendous bat speed and a lumberjack-like physique1.
Harmon Killebrew:
Killebrew played from 1959 to 1975.
Plate Appearances (PA): 9553
Home Runs (HR): 562 (HR per PA: 0.0588)
Strikeouts (SO): 1606 (SO per PA: 0.16)
Walks (BB): 1536 (BB per PA: 0.16)
Killebrew’s strikeout-to-walk ratio is impressive among this group2.
Reggie Jackson:
Reggie played from 1968 to 1987.
PA: 11283
HR: 562 (HR per PA: 0.049)
SO: 2551 (SO per PA: 0.22)
BB: 1365 (BB per PA: 0.12)
Known for his clutch performances, Reggie was a key player for the Oakland Athletics and the New York Yankees during his career.