Options
Name a player 1970 or later with more walks than strikeouts
Darin
Posts: 6,571 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I’ve always liked this stat, a batter with more walks than K’s.
Of course it was more common in the old days, so name a player who started in 1970 or later who accomplished this for their career.
Even the great Rod Carew did not do it although he was close. And Albert Pujols did it 10 seasons in St. Louis but never with the angels and finished with more K’s.
Ill start with 2,
George Brett
Ken Singleton
Stupid list…. Mistlin
0
Comments
there's no way Tony Gwynn had more strikeouts than walks
He came to the plate 28 times in 1969, so if you get hyper-technical he doesn't count, but Darrell Evans walked quite a bit more than he struck out. If you throw out his miserable 1969 call-up "season", Gene Tenace walked and struck out exactly the same number of times.
Having mentioned two of my favorite players, Wade Boggs and Rickey Henderson are the modern players that come first to mind.
Eddie Gaedel - my favorite MLB player of all time.
Oh sorry, that was before 1970.
I did not check any numbers or stat's...maybe...
Bill Buckner
Robin Yount
Willie Randolph
1 correct, Willie Randolph
Buckner was very close
Stupid list…. Mistlin
John Olerud who had a great OBP.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Boggs?
I will mention Mark Grace also, a player I loved to watch at the plate.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Just pausing to interject that the list of more walks than strikeouts includes greats like Henderson and Brett, and mediocrities like Randolph and (almost) Buckner. In other words, knowing that a player has more walks than strikeouts doesn't really tell you much about how good a hitter he was. Much more important is the absolute number of walks, regardless of the number of strikeouts. Felix Millan only struck out 242 times in a 12-year career and he was a terrible hitter mostly because he only walked 318 times. Ditto for Glenn Beckert (260 walks, 243 Ks) who was an even worse hitter than Millan.
True but man it’s nice to have a list with Brett on it and not Schmidt.😏
So Randolph wasn’t above average? I thought his numbers looked pretty good.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Barry Bonds?
OPS+ of 104, WPA of 8, so yes, technically, "above average", but I am not confining "mediocrities" to only the one player who was exactly average (if we could figure out who that person was). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Randolph on my team; great second basemen who are average hitters and great baserunners are hard to come by, but that doesn't change the fact that he was just an average hitter.
And since nobody has yet mentioned him, Joe Morgan walked a ton more than he struck out, and he was a great hitter because he walked a ton.
i wasn't sure about this guy so i checked his stats and he's a winner
Lou Whitaker
Yep. Sheffield and Chipper Jones did it as well which many people probably wouldnt think of
Pujols would have if he didnt play the last 2 seasons but since he did he fell 31 short
Chipper Jones must have the highest SLG of the humans mentioned here.
I like the way you phrased that, and yes he does.
Tim Raines is another
Don Mattingly 👍
Stupid list…. Mistlin
I have random guys popping into my head who could put the ball in play, and this guy had 8 more walks than strikeouts for his career
winner, winner, Wally Joyner dinner
Frank Thomas is the leader in the clubhouse with a higher SLG than Chipper
He was a stud!
Barry Larkin
Stupid list…. Mistlin
He was my first choice.
JoeBanzai, I know you’re a twins fan so I found this interesting……..
After five full seasons to start his career, Kent Hrbek had 319 walks and 415 strikeouts.
But over his next 8 years he had more walks than K’s every one of those years and finished with 838 walks and 798 K’s.
Nice turnaround 😀
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Felix Fermin played 10 seasons and hit 4 home runs
and he had more walks than strikeouts
Exactly.
The myth at play here, and in so many other contexts, is that it is worse to strike out than to ground out. People just KNOW that striking out is much worse than "putting the ball in play" and grounding out. People are wrong.
Todd Helton, 1335 walks and 1175 strikeouts
Brian Giles, 1183 walks and 835 strikeouts
Mike Hargrove, 965 walks and 550 strikeouts
Dave Magadan, 718 walks and 546 strikeouts
Keith Hernandez, 1070 walks and 1012 strikeouts
Alvin Davis, 685 walks and 558 strikeouts
Chuck Knoblauch, 804 walks and 730 strikeouts
Brett Butler, 1129 walks and 907 strikeouts
Kevin Seitzer, 669 walks and 617 strikeouts
Lenny Dykstra, 640 walks and 503 strikeouts
Steve Braun, 579 walks and 433 strikeouts
Rafael Palmeiro, 1353 walks and 1348 strikeouts
Brian Downing, 1197 walks and 1127 strikeouts
Mike Greenwell, 460 walks and 364 strikeouts
Matt Lawton, 681 walks and 613 strikeouts
Jason Kendall, 721 walks and 686 strikeouts
Rob Deer
575 walks, 1409 strikeouts
close
He holds the all time record in both walks and Intentional bases on balls.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
Never forget that Jorge Orta put a 2-strike pitch in play, and then proceeded to score 13 runs all by himself.
Let's do a little thought experiment:
You own a major league baseball team, and your manager calls for seven (7!) sacrifice bunts in one game. Win, lose, or draw, what are you going to do afterwards? Do you fire the manager?
.
.
.
.
.
.
You own a major league baseball team, and your players, including the "best player in baseball", like to stand around and watch pitches go by like they're beautiful babes in bikinis, and go down looking seven (7!) times in one game? Win, lose, or draw, what are you going to do afterwards? Do you talk about how great Trouty is, and how it's such a shame that he's never won anything?
.
.
.
.
Just imagine how many 9th inning runs they'd have scored if they'd stick out instead...
Brett would not be on the list of who had more strikeouts then RBI’s.
Schmidt would, with Reggie way ahead of him.
Forum members on ignore
Erba - coolstanley-dallasactuary-SDsportsfan
daltex
Frank was a monster. Great great hitter
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Brett is probably the only player on this list post 1970 who had more home runs than strikeouts in one season and more RBI’s than games played in one season.
Stupid list…. Mistlin
Bonds had more HRs than Ks in 2004, got walked way to much for more RBIs than games played
And yes putting the ball in play in many instances is much better than a strikeout. Guy on third no outs 2 hopper up the middle run scores, strikeout guy is still on third. 2nd and 3rd same thing etc etc etc etc. If no one is one base its not a major difference but theres still over a 1000 people a year that get on base from errors. They are not equal
All true. BUT, usually there is nobody on base, and usually a groundout doesn't advance any runners, and often a ground out with runners on base leads to two outs, not one. Add it all up and the difference between a strikeout and a ground out adds up to very, very little.
But, the people who get very few strikeouts are also - with a handful of exceptions - the same people who hardly ever walk. If you know nothing else about two players except that player 1 had 30 walks and 25 strikeouts and player 2 had 100 walks and 150 strikeouts, you should bet a LOT of money that player 2 is better than player 1. The value of those extra 70 walks swamps the value of the 125 fewer strikeouts. Knowing only these two stats, I can say that Player 2 is probably a very good hitter, and that it is not possible that player 1 is a very good hitter.
Players who only walk 30 times in a season do not know how to tell balls from strikes, and how could anyone be a good hitter lacking that very crucial skill? Answer: they can't.
Rich Dauer 297 BB, 219 K
Greg Gross 523 BB, 250 K
HEY! Thanks for posting this.
Hrbek was a very good player and grew up in the shadow of Metropolitan Stadium. He was a huge Harmon Killebrew fan (we all were).
I would have never guessed he ended up with more walks than strikeouts.
Speaking of Killebrew, he also began his career with 11 seasons with more K's than walks, then had 7 with more walks (one tie). He ended up with 1559 walks and 1699 strikeouts, damn good for a slugger with a .509 lifetime SLG.
GO TWINS!
A guy with 30 walks and 25 strikeouts is very likely someone that doesnt play much. Thats a defensive replacement outfielder. Really the only time where a ball in play would be a double play is guy on first less than 2 outs.
If you want to break down situations where a strikeout probably doesnt matter like an Ortiz with no one on who would just clog the bases thats fine. I dont want my best hitter just trying to make contact with no one on, but theres more situations where putting the ball in play is more productive than striking out.
Oh for the love of God. I meant IN A FULL SEASON OF AT BATS. I thought that was clear. Think Felix Fermin or Bill Buckner or other less than good hitters who walked even fewer than 30 times in most FULL seasons.
Show me one player that has 30 walks and 25 strikeouts in a full season of 550+ at bats in the last 50 years
In 1974 Bill Buckner had 30 BB and 24 K in 620 Plate Appearances. Not 25, but pretty close
I have this nauseating feeling that if I name someone who didn't have EXACTLY 30 walks and 25 strikeouts you're going to do your dance of oblivious ignorance and claim victory. But I'm brave, so here goes:
Bill Buckner, 1974: 30 walks, 24 strikeouts
Bill Buckner, 1979: 30 walks, 28 strikeouts
Bill Buckner, 1983: 25 walks, 30 strikeouts
Felix Millan, 1973: 35 walks, 22 strikeouts
Felix Millan, 1974: 31 walks, 14 strikeouts
Tommy Helms, 1973: 32 walks, 21 strikeouts
I could name more, but you played a trick that eliminates several of them. By setting a minimum of 550 at bats, you have eliminated nearly all of the bad hitters, who aren't allowed to bat that often. And players who only walk 30 times in a season are bad hitters. Felix Fermin would be on the list, but he was so bad his rookie season (41 walks, 27 strikeouts) that he was never allowed to bat that often again. If he had in 1993 (514 plate appearances with 21 walks and 14 strikeouts), he'd have blown both of the 30 and 25 barriers away.
And if you'd said 55 instead of 50 years I could list some more, like Glenn Beckert and Matty Alou.
@Basebal21
For their careers, for all their contact and lack of contact
Buckner Reached on Error 119 times
Reggie Jackson reached on Error 122 times
We don't have to think, "contact COULD lead to an error." We see exactly what their contact DID lead to.
They type of out is minimal, all that matters is getting as many BB, singles, doubles, triples, and Home Runs while making the LEAST amount of outs. The only true factor for outs is simply how many you make, not how you make them.
I did say minimal. There is a difference in K or a batted ball out. It just isn't nearly as big as people make it out to be. The other stuff matters infinitely more (BB, !B, 2B, 3B, HR, #of outs made)
Buckner had 399 Productive Outs(the ones people allude to all the time).
Reggie had 263 Productive outs(people seem to forget that the big K people also get productive outs)
There is a difference there. 130 productive outs spread out over 20 seasons. Right there you see the difference is small though.
However, all that extra contact leads to more double plays.
Buckner hit into 247 double plays
Reggie hit into 183 double plays
The extra double plays pretty much washes away the positives from those productive outs.
In the end, the difference is minimal.
You dont' even need to look at any of that because the play by play Run Expectancy credits a player for moving a runner up with an out or striking out with a man on base. it is already credited for someone like Buckner and subtracted for someone like Reggie and they represent the complete opposite on the spectrum for their era.
No player comes to the plate with the goal of striking out. Striking out is a by product of trying to hit the ball hard and often.
Failure to put the ball in play is not a strategy. Putting the ball in play weakly is a crap strategy.
Getting as many BB, singles, doubles, triples, and Home Runs while making the LEAST amount of outs is the wining strategy. The only true factor for outs is simply how many you make, not how you make them.
What usually happens is people find a guy who strikes out a lot on a team that loses and then they say "strikes out all the time. Costs us from winning, etc.."
Reggie struck out the most ever. They won all the time.
Ruth struck out the most in his league. They won all the time.
All the best hitters this year did what they were supposed to do,they hit the ball hard often, but it cost them strikeouts.
Acuna and Olson combined for 251 strikeouts
Betts and Freeman combined for 228 strikeouts
Anyone bitching about them? No. Why? Because they got a ton of BB, 1B, 2B, 3B, HR, limited their # of outs made, and their teams won. It does not matter how many of their outs were strikeouts or pop outs or ground outs...those all suck.
Austin Riley felt left out of Acuna and Freeman so he added 172 strikeouts of his own. He scored 117 runs and drove in 97.
Making an out is bad period. As pointed out above rarely anything good comes out of an out made.
Tonss of good comes out of BB, 1B, 2B, 3B, and HR, so get as many of those as you can.
For all of Bill Buckner's putting the ball in play and good batting average the most runs he ever scored in a year was 93.
For all the crap Schwarber got for striking out 215 times this year he scored 108 runs and they were winners.
As I'm sure youre aware baseball is a very situational individual game. Aside from bad base running or really bad luck with a line drive on the bag you really are only concerned with a double play with a guy on first less than two outs. Theres many more instances where a ball in play is more productive than a strikeout especially when youre talking about players that are average hitters or worse. This is especially true now with shorter base paths and the shift being banned
Those instances are all accounted for and credited already. They count, but they are one hair in an entire wig.
As for them being more important for bad hitters, I would say they should be getting more BB, 1B, 2B, 3B, and HR while making less outs, then they wouldn't be bad hitters.
Giving a hitter all this perceived monstrous credit for 11 batted ball outs that have some tiny production value while ignoring the 350 batted ball outs that give zero production value is a bad practice.