Can anyone here explain why something like this might have been produced, who would have paid the costs, and who might have received it? And for that matter, it is proper to call it a "proclamation medal"?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Mexico Puebla. Ferdinand VII gold "Cabildo Eclesiastico" Proclamation Medal 1808 MS61 NGC, Grove-F-122, Fonrobert-6961, Herrera-52, Medina-348. 35x42mm. 38.24gm. By F. Gordillo.
A substantial find among collectors of proclamation issues, with silver examples coming to market once every few years, yet here struck in gold. Highly compelling visually and imbued with fully medallic qualities, from the depth of Ferdinand's bust to the unusual ovoid shape.
By the way, the coin is cheaper:
Spanish America Ferdinand VII Eight Escudos "doubloon" 1808
Gold, 36.5 mm, 27.00 gm, Mexico City Mint
@MrEureka said:
Can anyone here explain why something like this might have been produced, who would have paid the costs, and who might have received it? And for that matter, it is proper to call it a "proclamation medal"?
Shot in the dark....
Produced as a gift or favor, paid for by Ferdinand / The Throne of Spain, to be given to members of the Catholic church / religious leaders, perhaps not a proclamation medal in the traditional sense / political use.
Or with the 1808 invasion of Spain by Napoleon, who then placed his brother, Joseph Napoleon on the throne, was it produced to in some way denounce Joseph Napoleon and only recognize Ferdinand VII as the true monarch. .....Still a guess
@MrEureka said:
Can anyone here explain why something like this might have been produced, who would have paid the costs, and who might have received it? And for that matter, it is proper to call it a "proclamation medal"?
Shot in the dark....
Produced as a gift or favor, paid for by Ferdinand / The Throne of Spain, to be given to members of the Catholic church / religious leaders, perhaps not a proclamation medal in the traditional sense / political use.
Or with the 1808 invasion of Spain by Napoleon, who then placed his brother, Joseph Napoleon on the throne, was it produced to in some way denounce Joseph Napoleon and only recognize Ferdinand VII as the true monarch. .....Still a guess
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
J. T. Medina's book lists all kinds of medals for Ferdinand VII, some privately produced.
The "proclamation medals" are similar to coronation medals minted for British kings and queens.
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
Yes but in this particular case maybe not.
I most likely am wrong maybe it will get solved here after all.
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
You realize that most of the biggest firms have some extraordinary numismatists on staff, right?
And that even if a collector may know than most dealers about his own specialty, he is unlikely to have anything close to the range of knowledge than most good dealers have.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
You realize that most of the biggest firms have some extraordinary numismatists on staff, right?
And that even if a collector may know than most dealers about his own specialty, he is unlikely to have anything close to the range of knowledge than most good dealers have.
That was my thought process but I also know people here are very advanced in their fields as well. I was just offering a option to a solution if ever one did not come about here. It was by no means a jab towards board members here.
@JohnnyCache said:
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
You realize that most of the biggest firms have some extraordinary numismatists on staff, right?
And that even if a collector may know than most dealers about his own specialty, he is unlikely to have anything close to the range of knowledge than most good dealers have.
THAT' S SO TRUE ESPECIALLY ME !
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Comments
Can anyone here explain why something like this might have been produced, who would have paid the costs, and who might have received it? And for that matter, it is proper to call it a "proclamation medal"?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
From Heritage Auctions:
Mexico Puebla. Ferdinand VII gold "Cabildo Eclesiastico" Proclamation Medal 1808 MS61 NGC, Grove-F-122, Fonrobert-6961, Herrera-52, Medina-348. 35x42mm. 38.24gm. By F. Gordillo.
A substantial find among collectors of proclamation issues, with silver examples coming to market once every few years, yet here struck in gold. Highly compelling visually and imbued with fully medallic qualities, from the depth of Ferdinand's bust to the unusual ovoid shape.
By the way, the coin is cheaper:
Spanish America Ferdinand VII Eight Escudos "doubloon" 1808
Gold, 36.5 mm, 27.00 gm, Mexico City Mint
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1082983/a-mickey-mouse-reason-for-buying-an-old-coin
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
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Agreed but still a cool piece of history. I did not bid not my type of collectible and also way out of my price range even if it had been.
I found some info on this book:
Sorry it is in Spanish.
I've got an AU62 example in silver. Probably a details grade because of someone trying to remove a museum ink marking.
Shot in the dark....
Produced as a gift or favor, paid for by Ferdinand / The Throne of Spain, to be given to members of the Catholic church / religious leaders, perhaps not a proclamation medal in the traditional sense / political use.
Or with the 1808 invasion of Spain by Napoleon, who then placed his brother, Joseph Napoleon on the throne, was it produced to in some way denounce Joseph Napoleon and only recognize Ferdinand VII as the true monarch. .....Still a guess
Total guess, Now @MrEureka please fill us in.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
I don't know. That's why I asked.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Oh well, I thought you had a little history lesson for us.
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Maybe the people over at HA that handle this section of world coins would have the answer. Maybe someone here can reach out to them and ask. If they don't know possible a company like Daniel Sedwick LLC would have the answer.
You realize of course that most collectors know more than most dealers, especially the big, generic coin dealers.
Yes but in this particular case maybe not.
J. T. Medina's book lists all kinds of medals for Ferdinand VII, some privately produced.
The "proclamation medals" are similar to coronation medals minted for British kings and queens.
http://www.iberoamericadigital.net/BDPI/Search.do;jsessionid=26C4E568E82A0C0DD605DB06ACEAAC47?numfields=1&field1=docId&field1val=bdh0000041927&field1Op=AND&advanced=true&hq=true&important=Título:+Medallas+de+proclamaciones+y+juras+de+los+Reyes+de+España+en+América
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
I most likely am wrong maybe it will get solved here after all.
You realize that most of the biggest firms have some extraordinary numismatists on staff, right?
And that even if a collector may know than most dealers about his own specialty, he is unlikely to have anything close to the range of knowledge than most good dealers have.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That was my thought process but I also know people here are very advanced in their fields as well. I was just offering a option to a solution if ever one did not come about here. It was by no means a jab towards board members here.
THAT' S SO TRUE ESPECIALLY ME !
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.