PSA BADLY GRADED MY CARD

yankees014 · October 31, 2019 3:50PM

1957 Topps Billy Martin just came back today. Expected to it get at least a 7 if not a 8 or 9. Sharp corners and the bottom left corner on back has a pixelated mark from the case, not on the card. What do think?

slimies · October 31, 2019 4:02PM

are the marks all around his hat on the card or the case? or is that just glare?

maddux69 · October 31, 2019 4:06PM

Paper loss above the "T" in Martin on the reverse?

yankees014 · October 31, 2019 4:15PM

@slimies said:
are the marks all around his hat on the card or the case? or is that just glare?

It’s on the card. It’s barely noticeable in person. But that would knock it down to a 8 or 7, not a 2😂. A 2 is badly damaged corners with stains and heavy damage.

slimies · October 31, 2019 4:21PM

i know.. thats about all i could see wrong .. thats too huge a drop grade

LarkinCollector · October 31, 2019 4:31PM

When you get a grade that is shockingly lower than what you expect, there are three things you need to check out ... surface, surface, and surface. It's not 1985 anymore, when the only thing that mattered was the corners. There is a small amount of paper loss or a puncture that doesn't go all the way through somewhere (stirrup on his left leg?) to account for that grade.

akuracy503 · October 31, 2019 5:07PM

Larkin is correct surface indentation, wrinkle or crease can you cannot see with the naked eye. Put it under sunlight or the brightest light you can and recheck.

nam812 · October 31, 2019 5:10PM

What's going on within the Y on his cap?

Loyalty32 · October 31, 2019 5:54PM

Has to be the best looking 2 out there!

abcde12345 · October 31, 2019 6:29PM

Waverly surfaces. Net graded.

handyman · October 31, 2019 6:31PM

The o in major on the back i can see a full crease going all the way across.?

handyman · October 31, 2019 6:32PM

“Complete majOr”

handyman · October 31, 2019 6:37PM

crease or multiple spider wrinkles will get this grade on pack fresh cards comboed with the surface dust/ flaws

DBesse27 · October 31, 2019 6:53PM

@handyman said:
crease or multiple spider wrinkles will get this grade on pack fresh cards comboed with the surface dust/ flaws

This.

artee · October 31, 2019 7:49PM

@maddux69 said:
Paper loss above the "T" in Martin on the reverse?

L in Cali has that going on too.

artee · October 31, 2019 8:28PM

You know what? I’m going to be the optimist in this bunch and say “Mechanical Error”.

Send it back in.

chaz43 · October 31, 2019 9:42PM

Paper loss on the front or back will get you nailed. Lucky it wasn't a PSA 1.

PSA 2

chaz

PROMETHIUS88 · October 31, 2019 10:08PM

Even if the stuff on the front was only snow and there were no other issues....other than the centering, you probably shouldn't have expected to get any better than a 7PD. As others have stated, there has to be something else wrong with the surface that you aren't seeing that caused it to warrant a 2. It's a nice looking 2 though.

pab1969 · November 1, 2019 12:53AM

Grader of death is alive and well.

DBesse27 · November 1, 2019 5:37AM

You say that's a great looking 2, and you're not wrong. On the other hand, it would have been a horrible looking 7.

ScoobyDoo2 · November 1, 2019 5:44AM

I think the corners saved it from a worse grade.....perhaps

JoeBanzai · November 1, 2019 6:05AM

"A horrible looking 7" ????????

"I think the corners saved it from a worse grade.....perhaps" Not too many grades lower than a 2.

If you can't find anything wrong with it while it's in the holder, crack it out and check it out in sunlight or other bright light.

Beautiful card. I am assuming paper loss somewhere to reduce it to a "2". Maybe wax on front?

Let us know what you decide.

DBesse27 · November 1, 2019 6:38AM

Joe, maybe the word "horrible" was too harsh, but I have never seen a PSA 7 with so much wear to the front surface.

ReggieCleveland · November 1, 2019 7:16AM

I believe 2 is the ceiling for any kind of paper loss. For your viewing pleasure.... specks of paper loss (I'm saying it's properly graded).

yankees014 · November 1, 2019 9:31AM

@ReggieCleveland said:
I believe 2 is the ceiling for any kind of paper loss. For your viewing pleasure.... specks of paper loss (I'm saying it's properly graded).

Thanks. This was the most helpful comment on this thread!

akuracy503 · November 1, 2019 9:50AM

Don't feel so bad. 2's can mean many things. You can always ask for a .5 bump if it helps any.

yankees014 · November 1, 2019 10:24AM

@akuracy503 said:

Don't feel so bad. 2's can mean many things. You can always ask for a .5 bump if it helps any.

Is it that low because of the surface wear on the top right white border? Those little specks?

jay0791 · November 1, 2019 12:28PM

Super nice Chapman and Wadell
Mr Yankees sorry about getting a 2. That barely covers grading fees for values.
However card presents better than grade. Some very knowledgeable guys have posted here
so learn from it. Plant what Larkincollector said n your mind. IMO the card started at a 7 and anything cold bring that down did. Pay attention to the 1957 issue as it is plagued by "snow" on he fronts.

Don't pay any attention to Dan above. He was probably having breakfast with Carl Yastrzemski and chocking on a red hot jalapeno omelet. LOL

artee · November 1, 2019 1:03PM

2's like these sell like 5s.

JoeBanzai · November 1, 2019 2:07PM

@DBesse27 said:
Joe, maybe the word "horrible" was too harsh, but I have never seen a PSA 7 with so much wear to the front surface.

Fair enough. I can't tell if it's wear, wax, or "snow". In any case a 2 would not be deserved unless it's wax or paper loss I can't see, even a crease wouldn't knock it down to a 2.

Crack that baby out and let us know what you find. Have a woman's nylon stocking in hand just in case! ;-)

stevek · November 1, 2019 4:29PM

When you realize a little pin hole can take a 10 and turn it into a 1, that fact alone can provide a fairly good beginning to understanding card grading. Even a simple rubber band indentation on what otherwise would be a high grade card, can turn it into a 5.

Probably most everyone's initial submission to PSA is a disappointment. Which has nothing to do with PSA, but simply lack of understanding of PSA's grading standards.

Some advice if you wish to heed it. Study the PSA grading standards, it really doesn't take that long. And this is the key point...then when putting together a submission, pretend as though the cards are not yours and you are grading the way a PSA grader would.

For example if the card has three sharp corners but one frayed corner, you can't subjectively think as if that frayed corner isn't there. A PSA grader is going to see that frayed corner and adjust the grade accordingly.

Allowing your own subjectivity to enter into grading because the hoped for value can cloud our judgment, will often result in a very disappointing submission.

perkdog · November 1, 2019 4:52PM

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve looked at a card and didn’t see a blemish of any kind until I held it under a light at and angle and then I see the crease/s. Not saying that’s the case with the OP’s card but maybe that’s a possibility too. Either way it’s a great looking card, hopefully he didn’t spend “PSA 7” Money on it 🤞

remedylane · November 1, 2019 7:41PM

@stevek said:
When you realize a little pin hole can take a 10 and turn it into a 1, that fact alone can provide a fairly good beginning to understanding card grading. Even a simple rubber band indentation on what otherwise would be a high grade card, can turn it into a 5.

Probably most everyone's initial submission to PSA is a disappointment. Which has nothing to do with PSA, but simply lack of understanding of PSA's grading standards.

Some advice if you wish to heed it. Study the PSA grading standards, it really doesn't take that long. And this is the key point...then when putting together a submission, pretend as though the cards are not yours and you are grading the way a PSA grader would.

For example if the card has three sharp corners but one frayed corner, you can't subjectively think as if that frayed corner isn't there. A PSA grader is going to see that frayed corner and adjust the grade accordingly.

Allowing your own subjectivity to enter into grading because the hoped for value can cloud our judgment, will often result in a very disappointing submission.

Fantastic post and dead on. My first couple of submissions were learning experiences. Getting a good jewlers loupe can also help tremendously in seeing flaws.

Of course we all still get disappointed on a grade from time to time. I've sent in a lot of 1948 leaf boxing cards and they generally grade out around a 5 or 6. Some folks don't think it's worth grading in that range. For me it's the encapsulation and liking how the card looks in the holder.

It all depends on your reasons for grading. If its to flip a card or for investment potential then chances are you will be disappointed a lot. I sent in my Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, and Roger Staubach rookies recently. I was expecting 9, 9, and 5 respectively. I got 8, 8.5, and 4.5. But I was happy as they were my childhood cards.

Sucks you are so disappointed on your grade. But trust these guys on the forum. They are super knowledgeable, and you will learn a lot from them. I know I have.

Matt

stevek · November 1, 2019 8:04PM

@remedylane said:

@stevek said:
When you realize a little pin hole can take a 10 and turn it into a 1, that fact alone can provide a fairly good beginning to understanding card grading. Even a simple rubber band indentation on what otherwise would be a high grade card, can turn it into a 5.

Probably most everyone's initial submission to PSA is a disappointment. Which has nothing to do with PSA, but simply lack of understanding of PSA's grading standards.

Some advice if you wish to heed it. Study the PSA grading standards, it really doesn't take that long. And this is the key point...then when putting together a submission, pretend as though the cards are not yours and you are grading the way a PSA grader would.

For example if the card has three sharp corners but one frayed corner, you can't subjectively think as if that frayed corner isn't there. A PSA grader is going to see that frayed corner and adjust the grade accordingly.

Allowing your own subjectivity to enter into grading because the hoped for value can cloud our judgment, will often result in a very disappointing submission.

Fantastic post and dead on. My first couple of submissions were learning experiences. Getting a good jewlers loupe can also help tremendously in seeing flaws.

Of course we all still get disappointed on a grade from time to time. I've sent in a lot of 1948 leaf boxing cards and they generally grade out around a 5 or 6. Some folks don't think it's worth grading in that range. For me it's the encapsulation and liking how the card looks in the holder.

It all depends on your reasons for grading. If its to flip a card or for investment potential then chances are you will be disappointed a lot. I sent in my Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, and Roger Staubach rookies recently. I was expecting 9, 9, and 5 respectively. I got 8, 8.5, and 4.5. But I was happy as they were my childhood cards.

Sucks you are so disappointed on your grade. But trust these guys on the forum. They are super knowledgeable, and you will learn a lot from them. I know I have.

Matt

My first PSA submission included a 1965 Topps Catfish Hunter rookie. Beautiful card, original luster as if it came right out of a pack, great centering, corners were sharp with the mildest of fraying on one corner. I figured it was a 9, with some bad luck it would be an 8.

Well you see it coming...came back a 5 and i was hissed as yell, so i understand how the OP feels.

Took me a while to see the problem because i wasn't sure what i was looking for, and sure enough there it was, about a 1/2" tiny wrinkle on the front towards the bottom right of the card, barely perceptible, and didn't interfere whatsoever with the beauty of the card.

Well it is what it is, and it received the 5. The grade was correct.

However i'm still hissed off about it.

ReggieCleveland · November 2, 2019 9:04AM

Lots of really, really good posts here. Nothing beats experience. I know I've deliberately sent in cards that I knew weren't 10s because I wanted to learn if that damage I saw made it a 9 or an 8.

I'm certainly no wunderkind when it comes to grading but I'll say this though: I got a LOT better at grading when I started spending as much time examining the backs as I was examining the fronts. I think a lot of people scour the fronts and just gloss over the backs. I've seen a lot of gem mint corners from the front that exhibited slight damage when you looked at them closely from the back. Just because you may not care about the card's back doesn't mean PSA doesn't. Edge chipping visible on the back, fisheyes on the back, minor print defects, all these things will hinder the card's grade.

I know it's frustrating to FINALLY find a copy of that tough card that is 50/50 with a clean surface and perfect corners but if there's something going on with the card's back, it WILL effect the grade. It hurts, but it's the truth.

Arthur

yankees014 · November 2, 2019 9:39AM

@MLBdays said:
@yankees014 ...its nothing personal ~ just business. Fantastic photo of the ole' 22 time? yankee skipper.

Thanks for the feedback!

yankees014 · November 2, 2019 9:42AM

@ReggieCleveland said:
Lots of really, really good posts here. Nothing beats experience. I know I've deliberately sent in cards that I knew weren't 10s because I wanted to learn if that damage I saw made it a 9 or an 8.

I'm certainly no wunderkind when it comes to grading but I'll say this though: I got a LOT better at grading when I started spending as much time examining the backs as I was examining the fronts. I think a lot of people scour the fronts and just gloss over the backs. I've seen a lot of gem mint corners from the front that exhibited slight damage when you looked at them closely from the back. Just because you may not care about the card's back doesn't mean PSA doesn't. Edge chipping visible on the back, fisheyes on the back, minor print defects, all these things will hinder the card's grade.

I know it's frustrating to FINALLY find a copy of that tough card that is 50/50 with a clean surface and perfect corners but if there's something going on with the card's back, it WILL effect the grade. It hurts, but it's the truth.

Arthur

Thanks for the feedback! Not only are you helping me become a better grader, your helping everybody else in this forum.

yankees014 · November 2, 2019 9:42AM

@stevek said:

@remedylane said:

@stevek said:
When you realize a little pin hole can take a 10 and turn it into a 1, that fact alone can provide a fairly good beginning to understanding card grading. Even a simple rubber band indentation on what otherwise would be a high grade card, can turn it into a 5.

Probably most everyone's initial submission to PSA is a disappointment. Which has nothing to do with PSA, but simply lack of understanding of PSA's grading standards.

Some advice if you wish to heed it. Study the PSA grading standards, it really doesn't take that long. And this is the key point...then when putting together a submission, pretend as though the cards are not yours and you are grading the way a PSA grader would.

For example if the card has three sharp corners but one frayed corner, you can't subjectively think as if that frayed corner isn't there. A PSA grader is going to see that frayed corner and adjust the grade accordingly.

Allowing your own subjectivity to enter into grading because the hoped for value can cloud our judgment, will often result in a very disappointing submission.

Fantastic post and dead on. My first couple of submissions were learning experiences. Getting a good jewlers loupe can also help tremendously in seeing flaws.

Of course we all still get disappointed on a grade from time to time. I've sent in a lot of 1948 leaf boxing cards and they generally grade out around a 5 or 6. Some folks don't think it's worth grading in that range. For me it's the encapsulation and liking how the card looks in the holder.

It all depends on your reasons for grading. If its to flip a card or for investment potential then chances are you will be disappointed a lot. I sent in my Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith, and Roger Staubach rookies recently. I was expecting 9, 9, and 5 respectively. I got 8, 8.5, and 4.5. But I was happy as they were my childhood cards.

Sucks you are so disappointed on your grade. But trust these guys on the forum. They are super knowledgeable, and you will learn a lot from them. I know I have.

Matt

My first PSA submission included a 1965 Topps Catfish Hunter rookie. Beautiful card, original luster as if it came right out of a pack, great centering, corners were sharp with the mildest of fraying on one corner. I figured it was a 9, with some bad luck it would be an 8.

Well you see it coming...came back a 5 and i was hissed as yell, so i understand how the OP feels.

Took me a while to see the problem because i wasn't sure what i was looking for, and sure enough there it was, about a 1/2" tiny wrinkle on the front towards the bottom right of the card, barely perceptible, and didn't interfere whatsoever with the beauty of the card.

Well it is what it is, and it received the 5. The grade was correct.

However i'm still hissed off about it.

Thanks for the feedback! Not only are you helping me become a better grader, your helping everybody else in this forum.

PSA BADLY GRADED MY CARD

Comments