Waited nearly 2 months to get this 1869 Una Peseta shipped from Spain

mercurydimeguy · July 10, 2017 10:36PM

Very pleasantly surprised to see what I saw when I opened the envelope, so I thought I'd share...

HoledandCreative · July 10, 2017 10:47PM

Nice color.

Zoins · July 10, 2017 10:59PM

Sharp looking coin! Nice details, color and pull away.

terribleredmonster · July 10, 2017 11:41PM

I really like the obverse design on this coin. Very regal.

worldcoinguy · July 11, 2017 5:52AM

That is a great piece and a great design.

bronzemat · July 11, 2017 6:30AM

Thats a beauty, love the toning.

asheland · July 11, 2017 7:27AM

Very nice!

pruebas · July 11, 2017 8:01AM

Its tough to buy in Spain these days. You have to pay an antiquities fee and then wait for export to be approved.

mercurydimeguy · July 11, 2017 8:15AM

@pruebas said:
Its tough to buy in Spain these days. You have to pay an antiquities fee and then wait for export to be approved.

Yup! A royal PITA. I didn't know that when I bid on this piece (I didn't realize the dealer was in Spain)...but now I know.

Jackthecat1 · July 11, 2017 9:22AM

An excellent coin.

worldcoinguy · July 11, 2017 9:36AM

How much is the antiquities fee? I assume a fixed percentage of the declared value? I was unaware that Spain was doing this. How many other countries in the EU have similar antiquities fees?

pruebas · July 11, 2017 9:58AM

@worldcoinguy said:
How much is the antiquities fee? I assume a fixed percentage of the declared value? I was unaware that Spain was doing this. How many other countries in the EU have similar antiquities fees?

Please see this old thread.

PatAR · July 11, 2017 12:07PM

Lovely toning on an attractive example of the peseta that followed soon after Isabel II's overthrow. The L.M. in exergue identifies it as being created by Luis Marchionni, the same capable engraver who created many of the later Isabel II designs. The two six-pointed stars around the date identify the Madrid mint. The SN and M on reverse are a brief return to identification of assayers which Isabel's Spain had abandoned circa 1850. In this case, Donato Alvarez Santullano and Rafael Narvaez (a famous political figure during Isabel's time who had not appeared as an engraver since 1834). Oversight of the assaying and testing was the duty of Angel Mendoza Ordonez.

Congratulations on a fine addition to your collection! And thanks for a chance to unleash my geek.

brg5658 · July 12, 2017 11:06AM

Lovely design, and very nice eye appeal on that coin. This is NOT an easy coin in mid- to high-grade!

I presume you'll be sending it in for grading? I'd throw a grade guess (unsolicited) of AU53, possible details if those are cleaning striations in the fields on the obverse. Congrats.

mercurydimeguy · August 2, 2017 1:59PM

Grade just posted (sent it in Express and got quick turnaround)...I think I'll get some TVs as well, so I'll post those when they pop up. What doesn't show in my image (as well as I'd like) is just how cartwheel/radiant the luster is on this coin, and the depth of colors. It's a very pretty coin, and like I said in my OP, I was very pleasantly surprised when I opened the package. Knew the coin was UNC for sure, a high level of Choice BU (but not quite a GEM in my mind).

pruebas · August 2, 2017 2:30PM

Like Brandon, I wouldn't have thought this even UNC from that photo.

Congratulations on the grade! Glad it worked out.

Ironade · August 2, 2017 8:42PM

Very nice coin! The patience is official over for you, congratulations!

brg5658 · August 3, 2017 11:24AM

Good for you on the MS64 grade -- I'm quite certain that coin would grade AU at NGC if it looks anything like your images. In general, your images are MUCH better than TrueViews, so I doubt the TrueViews will change my mind on that opinion.

My eyes see genuine circulation every day of the week on this one on the high points.

Also, care to comment on the striations / marks in the field on the seated woman side of the coin?

Hussulo · August 3, 2017 1:36PM

Lovely patina and eye appeal

mercurydimeguy · August 3, 2017 2:24PM

@brg5658 said:
Good for you on the MS64 grade -- I'm quite certain that coin would grade AU at NGC if it looks anything like your images. In general, your images are MUCH better than TrueViews, so I doubt the TrueViews will change my mind on that opinion.

Thank you for the image complement, I'll take it

Regarding the grading, I try not to get worked up about it +/- ... It just is

Regarding NGC comment though, you did make me cough/chuckle. I've submitted several hundred World coins to both, and my experience doesn't resemble yours. 7 out of 10 times NGC world gets downgraded at PCGS, and not by just one point. I've had a Bavaria 1k go from NG66 to PC63, A russian poltina go from NG62 to P55, a Mexico 8R go from MS63 to AU58, a Peru 1 Sol go from MS64 to MS61... net-net, my experience is that NGC world grading is way more lenient on stuff than PCGS, but I do accept that your experience might be different.

That's why, I've kind of moved on from getting worked up about grading, the coin is the coin...I just prefer PC plastic so I accept the NG --> PC downgrade without much thought these days, and I accept PC raw grading as they grade them (I actually agree with PC more often than I agree with NG, but again, you mileage might vary).

coinkat · August 3, 2017 2:52PM

Terrificcoin

brg5658 · August 3, 2017 4:34PM

@mercurydimeguy said:

@brg5658 said:
Good for you on the MS64 grade -- I'm quite certain that coin would grade AU at NGC if it looks anything like your images. In general, your images are MUCH better than TrueViews, so I doubt the TrueViews will change my mind on that opinion.

Thank you for the image complement, I'll take it

Regarding the grading, I try not to get worked up about it +/- ... It just is

Regarding NGC comment though, you did make me cough/chuckle. I've submitted several hundred World coins to both, and my experience doesn't resemble yours. 7 out of 10 times NGC world gets downgraded at PCGS, and not by just one point. I've had a Bavaria 1k go from NG66 to PC63, A russian poltina go from NG62 to P55, a Mexico 8R go from MS63 to AU58, a Peru 1 Sol go from MS64 to MS61... net-net, my experience is that NGC world grading is way more lenient on stuff than PCGS, but I do accept that your experience might be different.

That's why, I've kind of moved on from getting worked up about grading, the coin is the coin...I just prefer PC plastic so I accept the NG --> PC downgrade without much thought these days, and I accept PC raw grading as they grade them (I actually agree with PC more often than I agree with NG, but again, you mileage might vary).

My experiences are largely limited to copper tokens, particularly Conder tokens. I have seen some truly awful "MS65" and "MS64" graded coppers from P...stuff that would maybe make it into N63 holders on a good day. Alas, it's the truly awful ones that we remember more than the ones they get right. In general, I collect a good amount of BN and RB copper, and I simply don't like the P approach to give a "pass" for unsightly spots on copper.

Nonetheless, you still didn't answer my inquiry with regard to the striations / marks in the fields behind the seated woman. Those don't look like "mint-made" anomalies to me. In addition, I don't know how the high point rub could be written-off as UNC?? This one is a real head-scratcher.

mercurydimeguy · August 3, 2017 6:01PM

@brg5658 I don't do well debating coin grading so I try to stay away from the topic. It's kind of like religion, it's just taboo. I have 2 grades for other people's coins...I would like to own this coin, or this is not a coin I would want to own. If someone presses me to give them a grade I will begrudgingly oblige and usually I'm spot on. Most that have dealt with me will tell you that I'm kind of binary that way and I don't get caught up in the weeds.

I have two grading scales. Both start at UNC. If I think the coin is UNC I then grade up. If I think the coin is not UNC I then grade down. This is how I arrived at "something less than GEM" for this coin. If it went 62-3, fine, if it went 64 great. If it went 58, I'd disagree but at the end of the day I buy the coin not the holder, which is why I also buy so many raw coins and get them slabbed myself.

Regarding the fields, there are some hairlines, which are expected when a coin is taken in/out of its storage or transported. It's this handling that also disturbs luster and tone, giving some coins the look of wear because the high points were disturbed. For me the key is recognizing what's circulation wear vs non-circulation handling. Anyway I don't know if that's right or wrong but it has worked for me for nearly 35 years.

Sorry to be a bit long winded

Waited nearly 2 months to get this 1869 Una Peseta shipped from Spain

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