A Bavarian box Thaler

Swampboy · August 16, 2015 11:49AM

I was imaging this 1625 Thaler of Maximilian

when I noticed a slight seam around the edge

Holding it by the edge I managed to work at it with my right thumbnail until, violá, the seamed pulled apart to reveal…

…a love poem/note. Evidently the gent who bought and or commissioned the piece was pulling out all the stops. Some of the flourishes are accented with gold gilt.

The poem appears to be in an old German dialect, perhaps Low German (?) and I say gent because of the poem’s salutation which I take to read “Fair Maiden”

Another phrase which I’ve attempted to translate is “hertzen berguneuse” which I’m taking to mean ‘berguneuse heart’ as in Berguneuse, the place name.
Perhaps the fellow was wooing a French woman. I will admit to letting my imagination wander a bit regarding this 17th century piece.

If any member could help with this I’d be happy to send my amateurish translation of some of the phrases.

JCMhouston · August 16, 2015 1:39PM

That is very cool Swampboy!

Iosephus · August 16, 2015 2:18PM

Quite an interesting piece!

STLNATS · August 17, 2015 3:47AM

Wonderful piece. Wonder if there was other inserts, such as a pic of the giver, at one time. What fun!

Weiss · August 17, 2015 8:56AM

Very cool? I don't know if I'd be thrilled or disappointed the coin is no longer a coin. Be awesome to find out it's an original work by a known poet, musician, or writer.

Zohar · August 17, 2015 9:02AM

I have seen quite a few of these and its always intriguing to see the inserts and meaning. I guess the closest thing today is machine made elongated coins. We seem to have lost something over the centuries.

LochNESS · August 17, 2015 12:23PM

Very cool, I agree. On many levels.

I'm impressed the paper and ink was able to survive all these years. Must have been a really good airtight and maybe watertight seal.

Your new pocket piece?

SaorAlba · August 17, 2015 8:24PM

That is very very cool. Far from being disappointed, I would be amazed to have such a treasure.

PatAR · August 18, 2015 3:43AM

A fascinating find! Thank you for sharing this.

It would be interesting to discover the likely date of this secret message coin's creation or what role the persons sharing it may have had in history.

Andres · August 19, 2015 8:36AM

I like your coin - thaler holder , Swampboy

It says: hertzen vergünnen not hertzen berguneuze.

Here's the translation from a dutch member,

Fair Maiden

Tell me, what is it ,that holds you back
Dont you want to give your heart to me
Give me your faithfull heart in exchange for a pledge (the thaler coin)
So I can stay faithfull to you and raise my hand on that.

Zohar · August 19, 2015 8:41AM

Andres - that's some good work! Folks were classy back then, iphone, IMs or texting!

Swampboy · August 19, 2015 10:02AM

Thanks for all the replies.

You can rest assured I consider this piece a treasure! And now, thanks to Andres' wonderful translation it actually speaks to me!!
I can't thank you enough Andres.

But thank you.

From that original photo session here are a few close ups of the gilding I referred to in my OP.

I hope you enjoy....

...

nicholasz219 · August 19, 2015 6:32PM

While it is a shame in one sense that the normal coin value is disrupted, I agree with SoarAlba in that you have acquired a piece of actual personal history from between two people centuries ago, which I feel is much more valuable. We are all attracted to history and pedigrees and how much more personal could it get than this? It would be great if there would have been a name too. I think it is fantastic.

worldcoinguy · August 23, 2015 12:39PM

Great post! You had my attention with the words "Bavarian taler"..... the hidden compartment and personal note is fascinating. I like it!

Swampboy · September 6, 2015 1:23AM

My learning curve for thalers is pretty steep and I've since learned that this piece has a 1625 obverse and a reverse from a 1639 thaler.

I also learned that I had the obverse/reverse wrong. Here is an updated image.

The 1639 thaler is listed in Krause (KM #263.1) as rare.

I've tried finding an online image of a 1639 so I can confirm my identification but no luck so far.

lordmarcovan · September 9, 2015 9:37PM

I think the discovery is a definite plus, and NOT a detraction at all.

TwoKopeiki · September 9, 2015 11:04PM

What a wonderful treasure! Great find, Swampboy!

lordmarcovan · January 5, 2018 3:09AM

TTT, because the subject of "Box dollars" and such came up on CoinTalk recently, so I was retrieving this thread.

Again, great find, Gil. Did you keep it?

Unknown · January 5, 2018 11:19AM

This content has been removed.

Swampboy · January 6, 2018 8:03PM

It was consigned to Josh at Civitas who found it a good home.
It was a thrill to find and hold for awhile.

scubafuel · January 8, 2018 8:03PM

That gilding and green accenting reminds me of inflection notes for a tune. Hebrew has something similar I believe. If not, it's a bit strange looking to just be decoration.

grip · November 24, 2018 12:20PM

How I wish for a time machine.

Namvet69 · November 24, 2018 12:29PM

Wow! Raiders of the lost ark has nothing on your find. Peace Roy

A Bavarian box Thaler

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