Should the Baseball HOF have levels of achievement..

olb31 · July 1, 2014 1:34AM

The Biggio thread had me thinking about this. Biggio was an above average player that stayed healthy and played a lot of years. Much like Jaime Moyer, Tommy John, Jim Kaat. His stats were above average, but other than his hit totals, nothing really stands out.

So, maybe there should be different levels of the HOF.

The Immortals Level - Mixture of longevity, fantastic production, MVP's, Cy young's, all-time records, rings

The Greats Level - For longevity, dominant for 5 or 6 years, but doesn't have any records, rings, MVP's, etc. (just wasn't a true long-term superstar)

LarkinCollector · July 1, 2014 1:39AM

IMHO, I think people already have their own determination of that, no need to formalize it.

mlbfan2 · July 1, 2014 1:56AM

::cough:: sports forum ::cough::

BaltimoreYankee · July 1, 2014 2:03AM

I say leave as is. We all know the difference between the true immortals: Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio, any other Yankee (just kidding!!) and the 'fringe' HOFers (Kell, Sutton, Slaughter, etc).

TheMick6 · July 1, 2014 3:43AM

I agree I don't think most die hard baseball fans go into the hall of fame and say oh look there Lou Brock, who was he???? Pretty sure we could all seperate the true legends from the other great ball players enshrined. If you formalize it and start putting stat totals that could be "compiled" then some players that don't belong could end up there. I know there are already a few in that probably shouldn't be and the sports writers can be idiots but I think for the most part they get it right. The only alternative I see with the voting process would be let the living members vote in new ball players. I mean come on who would be more qualified to put ball players in then them?

72skywalker · July 1, 2014 4:50AM

These are the players that can have their plaques hung above the urinals in the 2nd floor restroom. Good enough to make the hall but not quite good enough to go into the room with the others. I can see it now. " I wanted to read Craig Biggio's inscription but someone was using the toilet and I just couldn't wait any longer. But I was able to read Roberto Alomar's.

markj111 · July 1, 2014 5:25AM

No. The game changes. What would the complete game standard be for pitchers if baseball had established it in the 30s? BTW, you do do give Kaat enough credit.

fiveniner · July 1, 2014 5:35AM

ashabby · July 1, 2014 11:00AM

<< <i>I agree I don't think most die hard baseball fans go into the hall of fame and say oh look there Lou Brock, who was he???? Pretty sure we could all seperate the true legends from the other great ball players enshrined. If you formalize it and start putting stat totals that could be "compiled" then some players that don't belong could end up there. I know there are already a few in that probably shouldn't be and the sports writers can be idiots but I think for the most part they get it right. The only alternative I see with the voting process would be let the living members vote in new ball players. I mean come on who would be more qualified to put ball players in then them? >>

I agree peers should have some voice in this. To many writers have other agenda reason why they vote one way or another.

otwcards · July 1, 2014 1:38PM

Gee, how long until someone says that Jeter is a compiler? 20 seasons to accumulate a seasonal average: 137 games, 96 runs scored, 173 hits, 13 home runs, 65 RBI, 18 stolen bases, .310 batting average. No batting titles, no MVPs, never led the league in any major offensive category.

Biggio played 20 seasons, too. His seasonal average: 142 games, 92.2 runs scored, 153 hits, 15 home runs, 59 RBI, 21 stolen bases, .281 batting average. No batting titles, no MVPs, led the league in stolen bases once.

Eerily similar? Aside from Jeter having more hits (and a better batting average), they're pretty much statistical clones . . . aside from one having five World Series rings, a ROY award, an AS MVP award, a WS MVP award and post season numbers that mirrored his regular season performance while the other has none, none, none, none and didn't...

That being said, if you could have one of these two players on your team, which one would you take? I'm betting that Jeter wins that voting by a 9-1 margin.

CocoaBeachDodgers · July 1, 2014 6:15PM

The HOF is kind of like politics & religion. Nobody on this board is going to change your mind. Even with all their manipulative numbers & stats, we all hold are favorites in our hearts.

I agree with Darryle that in the most part, the sports writers & committee get it right. So if you are in, you deserve it, if you are out, you don't deserve it. There is no use in comparing stats from one player to another, especially from a different era, there are too many intangibles.

Just a bit of advice: Buy Gil Hodges RC! Go Dodgers!

skrezyna23 · July 1, 2014 7:49PM

<< <i>These are the players that can have their plaques hung above the urinals in the 2nd floor restroom. Good enough to make the hall but not quite good enough to go into the room with the others. I can see it now. " I wanted to read Craig Biggio's inscription but someone was using the toilet and I just couldn't wait any longer. But I was able to read Roberto Alomar's. >>

I needed to laugh. Thank you.

olb31 · July 2, 2014 12:08AM

<< <i>Gee, how long until someone says that Jeter is a compiler? 20 seasons to accumulate a seasonal average: 137 games, 96 runs scored, 173 hits, 13 home runs, 65 RBI, 18 stolen bases, .310 batting average. No batting titles, no MVPs, never led the league in any major offensive category.

Biggio played 20 seasons, too. His seasonal average: 142 games, 92.2 runs scored, 153 hits, 15 home runs, 59 RBI, 21 stolen bases, .281 batting average. No batting titles, no MVPs, led the league in stolen bases once.

Eerily similar? Aside from Jeter having more hits (and a better batting average), they're pretty much statistical clones . . . aside from one having five World Series rings, a ROY award, an AS MVP award, a WS MVP award and post season numbers that mirrored his regular season performance while the other has none, none, none, none and didn't...

That being said, if you could have one of these two players on your team, which one would you take? I'm betting that Jeter wins that voting by a 9-1 margin. >>

I like your comparison. But shouldn't the post season numbers way a little heavier than the regular season anyway. I'm pretty sure Mr. Ortiz is going to the Hall and the post season will be a strong reason. Biggio was not dominant, was not the best at his position, but was a very very good player. But weren't Jamie Moyer, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Mike Mussina, Bob Welch really good players, in some cases maybe achieved more than Biggio in some categories. In my world I think Dale Murphy was better than Biggio. Biggio isn't in right now because he was a very good player with longevity, but not a great player.

But based on who else is in, Biggio definitely belongs. If we could start over and just put in the true "HOFERS/the Greats" he would not make it.

Cakes · July 3, 2014 2:21AM

<< <i>Gee, how long until someone says that Jeter is a compiler? 20 seasons to accumulate a seasonal average: 137 games, 96 runs scored, 173 hits, 13 home runs, 65 RBI, 18 stolen bases, .310 batting average. No batting titles, no MVPs, never led the league in any major offensive category.

Biggio played 20 seasons, too. His seasonal average: 142 games, 92.2 runs scored, 153 hits, 15 home runs, 59 RBI, 21 stolen bases, .281 batting average. No batting titles, no MVPs, led the league in stolen bases once.

Eerily similar? Aside from Jeter having more hits (and a better batting average), they're pretty much statistical clones . . . aside from one having five World Series rings, a ROY award, an AS MVP award, a WS MVP award and post season numbers that mirrored his regular season performance while the other has none, none, none, none and didn't...

That being said, if you could have one of these two players on your team, which one would you take? I'm betting that Jeter wins that voting by a 9-1 margin. >>

I think you are understating a 30 point swing in batting average. Jeter nearing the top 5 in all time hits really elevates him.

olb31 · July 3, 2014 3:43AM

HOF Immortals - Ripken, Jeter, Aaron, Mays, Williams, Ruth, Gehrig, Musial, Schmidt, Brett, Bench, Maddux, Johnson, Yaz, Ryan, Banks, Clemente, Griffey JR, Frank Robinson, Brooks Robinson, mantle, Koufax, Henderson, ozzie, gwynn, murray, reggie, carlton, seaver, carew, rivera

HOF Greats - Sutton, Biggio, Glavine, Blyleven, Rice, Berra, Carter, Yount, Kaline, Killebrew, Gibson, ford, marichal, brock, dawson, boggs, sandberg, Winfield, molitor, palmer, Jackie robinson, feller,

HOF All Stars - Oliva, Santo, Maz, billy williams, Eckersley, smoltz, dickey, howard, drysdale, torre, puckett, gossage,

These are some examples of what I think should be done to classify the HOF. I do kind of agree with some of the posts above about a HOF being a HOF, but some or all of the "HOF All- Stars" are really iffy in my opinion.

This is not all inclusive list, by the way.

Should the Baseball HOF have levels of achievement..

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