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Recent Legendary Auctions Shipment

Just bought a 1954 bowman set from legendary auctions, lot #72 in the november auction...get it in today, it's missing #32 del crandall, and check out this ted williams

Should I have known better when they didn't include a scan or mention the 2nd biggest card in the set? I sent them an email, tried to leave a voice mail but i need the "partys extension" to leave one...

Unreal


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Comments

  • samspopsamspop Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭
    Monster picture, so it took a few too upload, but is that the 1989 Bowman Reprint with bent up corners to make it look older??

    Keep us updated on the response and resolution from them. That is ridiculous.
  • yeah, i took a quick photo with my phone to get them something ASAP, its a 1989 bowman sweepstakes card.
  • Last time (several years ago) I bought a set from Legendary it was missing a few cards. Most were commons but then a key rookie that was supposed to be a PSA 9 was also missing. I've never experienced worst customer service when I called them to tell them of the issue, and they never took one step to resolve it.
    From what I can tell, 707 is the DOLLAR STORE compared to deans_cards. For what that guy charges, if I ever bought anything from him I would expect it to be delivered to me in a frickin' limo.
    ~WalterSobchak
  • otwcardsotwcards Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭
    Try extension "38." It won't connect you to whom you want to speak, but at least it might let you blow off some steam . . .
  • Post this on net54 (main board, not postwar board). Doug Allen will see it.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    Not to defend them, but nowhere in this auction does it make mention of the Ted Williams card being included. Was the Jimmy Piersall card included?

    If the Ted Williams card was included AND real...you can best believe Legendary would have mentioned it. My guess is, they did not make mention of it, because the card was not real, and just included for the owners sake. If the card was not mentioned, I would not have expected to receive it. If Jimmy Piersall (the alternative) was included, then you really don't have a case here.


  • << <i>Not to defend them, but nowhere in this auction does it make mention of the Ted Williams card being included. Was the Jimmy Piersall card included? >>


    Bobby makes a good point. (did I just say that?)

    http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=160088

    But it still should have been mentioned that the Williams card was not included in the "complete set".
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,220 ✭✭
    Edited because I was not familiar with the production of the Williams card.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    1954 Bowman set is complete WITHOUT the Ted Williams card if the Jimmy Piersall card is included. The Ted Williams card was pulled relatively quickly in the sets production, and the lack of mention of it in the auction title, leads me to believe that it is not included and Jimmy Piersall is. If Ted Williams WAS included and listed, I am 100% sure the bidding would have gone higher.
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,220 ✭✭
    Bobby ... didn't know about the Williams card. (Just read up on it.) Thanks for educating me on the set.

    My original comment directly above Bobby's has been deleted.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • In the SCD Standard Catalog, the 1954 Bowman Complete Set price does not include Williams or the 40+ variation cards in the set.

    On the PSA Registry, the 1954 Bowman Basic Set does include both Williams and Piersall. The Master sets has the 40+ variation cards also.

    Either way, Legendary should have mentioned the Williams card was not included.

  • jfkheatjfkheat Posts: 2,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have to agree with the others here. The Williams card is more than any other card in the set. Since it wasn't mentioned I wouldn't expect it to be included with the set.
    James
  • vols1vols1 Posts: 784 ✭✭✭
    It says 224 cards. If it had Williams it would say 225 cards.
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭
    no picture and no mention of it , no way to expect that card to be in the set
  • Ah. Copy. Thanks for the info guys!
  • tkd7tkd7 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭
    If the Williams is not included in the set than the auction description should call that out clearly to avoid any potential misunderstandings. It is not unreasonable to think a complete set would include it.
  • Much fun as these threads are to read, in this case the seller did nothing wrong (except perhaps could have noted NO Williams #66) but they do presume some knowledge from their audience.

    This lot is fine as stands.

    Rich
    Plano, Tx. Card Show #5, Sunday March 6, 2016 at Adat Chaverim (Northeast Corner Independence and Spring Creek) in Plano Tx 9Am to 4 PM. See you there!
  • swish54swish54 Posts: 695 ✭✭✭✭
    It does say in the title and the very first sentence that it was a complete set, so I'd expect it to be in there if I was a bidder, although it does say in parenthesis 224 and not 225. So it sounds like they are trying to cover their tracks by including the number of cards and that it's a "complete" set at the same time.

    I'm not educated on the big deal of if the Piersall card is included or not. What's the deal with that particular card making up for no Williams?
  • A complete set is a complete set no? That means every card right ? Not this card is not here if this card is here or if the moon is not full or the sun shines a certain way.

    In my opinion if you state complete set it should be complete unless otherwise stated.

    If there is some strange rule then it should be noted. Not every buyer has complete historical knowledge of every set . If you are a seller you have a responsibility to educate your buyers , clients, customers. That is how a good business runs and takes care of their customers. It's good for business when everyone is happy

    To me it seems even stranger that the Ted Williams card was what it was.. What the heck ?
  • otwcardsotwcards Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭


    << <i>A complete set is a complete set no? That means every card right ? Not this card is not here if this card is here or if the moon is not full or the sun shines a certain way.

    In my opinion if you state complete set it should be complete unless otherwise stated.

    If there is some strange rule then it should be noted. Not every buyer has complete historical knowledge of every set . If you are a seller you have a responsibility to educate your buyers , clients, customers. That is how a good business runs and takes care of their customers. It's good for business when everyone is happy

    To me it seems even stranger that the Ted Williams card was what it was.. What the heck ? >>



    A complete set is 244 cards with the #66 being the Jimmy Piersall (he's also card #210 in the set). The set IS complete at 244 sans the #66 Williams. I've seen T206 Sets sold minus the Big-4 with facsimiles of the Wagner, Maggie, Plank and Doyle. Many sets are considered complete minus certain shortprints or variations. It is a case of knowing what you're buying and asking questions if unsure...
  • Nathaniel1960Nathaniel1960 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Simple enough for the auction house to include the phrase "No Williams".

    IMO, this is somewhat similar to j@ckoff$ on Ebay that list 1979-80 Topps Complete Hockey Set and then in the description write (only missing one card, #18). But at least they say it somewhere.

    I would be interested to see how people would feel if this was the 1963 Fleer Set and the Checklist was there but the Joe Ad***k was not, or vice versa, and the Seller said "complete set". Both cards are SPs and replacement cards for the other, so to speak.
    Kiss me once, shame on you.
    Kiss me twice.....let's party.
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm not educated on the big deal of if the Piersall card is included or not. What's the deal with that particular card making up for no Williams? >>



    this particular set has TWO #66 cards. The rare and most valuable Ted Williams and his replacement, Jimmy Piersall. They are BOTH #66. If Williams was included instead of Piersall, it would have been noted, and the bidding would have went a lot higher. Since no mention was made, if I was bidding on the set, I would NOT have expected to received the Ted Williams card.


  • << <i>

    << <i>A complete set is a complete set no? That means every card right ? Not this card is not here if this card is here or if the moon is not full or the sun shines a certain way.

    In my opinion if you state complete set it should be complete unless otherwise stated.

    If there is some strange rule then it should be noted. Not every buyer has complete historical knowledge of every set . If you are a seller you have a responsibility to educate your buyers , clients, customers. That is how a good business runs and takes care of their customers. It's good for business when everyone is happy

    To me it seems even stranger that the Ted Williams card was what it was.. What the heck ? >>



    A complete set is 244 cards with the #66 being the Jimmy Piersall (he's also card #210 in the set). The set IS complete at 244 sans the #66 Williams. I've seen T206 Sets sold minus the Big-4 with facsimiles of the Wagner, Maggie, Plank and Doyle. Many sets are considered complete minus certain shortprints or variations. It is a case of knowing what you're buying and asking questions if unsure... >>



    not really complete if there is another card in the set right ? How can you say you a complete set of something and be missing a card ?

    Makes no sense to me.

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>not really complete if there is another card in the set right ? How can you say you a complete set of something and be missing a card ?

    Makes no sense to me. >>



    When it's pretty standard knowledge, or easy to look up (from Beckett.com, no subscription required to view checklists & descriptions):

    The cards in this 224-card set measure approximately 2 1/2" by 3 3/4". The set was distributed in two separate series: 1-128 in first series and 129-224 in second series. A contractual problem apparently resulted in the deletion of the number 66 Ted Williams card from this Bowman set, thereby creating a scarcity that is highly valued among collectors. The set price below does NOT include number 66 Williams but does include number 66 Jim Piersall, the apparent replacement for Williams in spite of the fact that Piersall was already number 210 to appear later in the set. Many errors in players' statistics exist (and some were corrected) while a few players' names were printed on the front, instead of appearing as a facsimile autograph. Most of these differences are so minor that there is no price differential for either card. The cards which changes were made on are numbers 12, 22,25,26,35,38,41,43,47,53,61,67,80,81,82,85,93,94,99,103,105,124,138,139, 140,145,153,156,174,179,185,212,216 and 217. The set was issued in seven-card nickel packs and one-card penny packs. The penny packs were issued 120 to a box while the nickel packs were issued 24 to a box. The notable Rookie Cards in this set are Harvey Kuenn and Don Larsen.

    The 'complete' set is with Piersall (1-224), the 'master' set includes Williams and all variations. There are hundreds of sets like this, 1969 Deckle Edge is complete w/o the SPs, 1972 Topps baseball is complete without all the yellow/green variations, etc. IMHO, the set was listed appropriately, but as others have said, mentioning the Williams was not included for clarification would have helped out those not familiar with the nuances. Still, if I'm bidding that much, I would clarify before bidding, not after the item is received.
  • The price wasn't a big deal for me, when I set my bid i used the three graded cards and some previous ebay sales to price the set, so i'm content with price i ended up paying even without the williams. The thing that ircked me was that the 1989 card was there, if it weren't i never would have posted anything to begin with. However, PSA does include the williams in their basic set registry and since Legendary uses information from the set registry/pop reports etc. to advertise and describe their lots I still think it should have been mentioned. Each set is unique, someone mentioned 1969 deckles are complete without the two SPs, well if someone were to sell a set without those i don't know a deckle collector who would be satisfied. On a very positive note, they did call me immediately at business open this morning to describe the situation and they are finding me the other missing card from the set, so I am satisfied with their customer service after the fact, much better than expected. Thanks again everyone for your input.
  • akuracy503akuracy503 Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭
    I am pleased to hear that Legendary took the time to explain and address customers questions.
    Good feedback in this thread.

    CU Ancient Members badge member.

    Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums

  • Nathaniel1960Nathaniel1960 Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The set, as opposed to the master set (including all variations, errors, etc), is considered complete without the Williams. And the description neither mentions nor pictures the Williams, as it certainly would have if it was included. Bidders should have deduced that the Williams was not included. However, I agree with the others that it would have been best if they noted the Williams card was not included, to avoid confusion. "The set is considered complete without the scarce Ted Williams variation." If I auctioned a 1987 OPC set on eBay, I would note that the issue does not have a Barry Bonds card, as some might idly assume it might. I wouldn't be in the wrong if I didn't note that a card that doesn't exist isn't included, but would think it prudent. You have to anticipate what bidders will be thinking.

    I once sold a wirephoto and the winner said he thought he would be getting a slide. I didn't feel amiss that I didn't include in the eBay description that the winner would not be getting a slide. Same as if he said he was expecting a toaster. >>



    I own several 1987 OPC Bonds RC's.
    Kiss me once, shame on you.
    Kiss me twice.....let's party.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The set, as opposed to the master set (including all variations, errors, etc), is considered complete without the Williams. And the description neither mentions nor pictures the Williams, as it certainly would have if it was included. Bidders should have deduced that the Williams was not included. However, I agree with the others that it would have been best if they noted the Williams card was not included, to avoid confusion. "The set is considered complete without the scarce Ted Williams variation." If I auctioned a 1987 OPC set on eBay, I would note that the issue does not have a Barry Bonds card, as some might idly assume it might. I wouldn't be in the wrong if I didn't note that a card that doesn't exist isn't included, but would think it prudent. You have to anticipate what bidders will be thinking.

    I once sold a wirephoto and the winner said he thought he would be getting a slide. I didn't feel amiss that I didn't include in the eBay description that the winner would not be getting a slide. Same as if he said he was expecting a toaster. >>



    I own several 1987 OPC Bonds RC's. >>


    I think that was the wrong Barry, Bonds is in, Larkin is not.


  • << <i>

    << <i>not really complete if there is another card in the set right ? How can you say you a complete set of something and be missing a card ?

    Makes no sense to me. >>



    When it's pretty standard knowledge, or easy to look up (from Beckett.com, no subscription required to view checklists & descriptions):

    The cards in this 224-card set measure approximately 2 1/2" by 3 3/4". The set was distributed in two separate series: 1-128 in first series and 129-224 in second series. A contractual problem apparently resulted in the deletion of the number 66 Ted Williams card from this Bowman set, thereby creating a scarcity that is highly valued among collectors. The set price below does NOT include number 66 Williams but does include number 66 Jim Piersall, the apparent replacement for Williams in spite of the fact that Piersall was already number 210 to appear later in the set. Many errors in players' statistics exist (and some were corrected) while a few players' names were printed on the front, instead of appearing as a facsimile autograph. Most of these differences are so minor that there is no price differential for either card. The cards which changes were made on are numbers 12, 22,25,26,35,38,41,43,47,53,61,67,80,81,82,85,93,94,99,103,105,124,138,139, 140,145,153,156,174,179,185,212,216 and 217. The set was issued in seven-card nickel packs and one-card penny packs. The penny packs were issued 120 to a box while the nickel packs were issued 24 to a box. The notable Rookie Cards in this set are Harvey Kuenn and Don Larsen.

    The 'complete' set is with Piersall (1-224), the 'master' set includes Williams and all variations. There are hundreds of sets like this, 1969 Deckle Edge is complete w/o the SPs, 1972 Topps baseball is complete without all the yellow/green variations, etc. IMHO, the set was listed appropriately, but as others have said, mentioning the Williams was not included for clarification would have helped out those not familiar with the nuances. Still, if I'm bidding that much, I would clarify before bidding, not after the item is received. >>



    i think variations are different than missing players. Yeah sure there is two different but why would they just clearly say no williams , easy enough. I dont expect anyone to state variation of colors or errors not included thats senseless , but if there is a player card that is not included that should always be stated.

    Not everyone is educated in sets. As a business standpoint, I do not understand why you would not do it. You could easily get a chargeback , and lose.
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭
    I remember years ago when there was an ad in Baseball Cards(?) magazine for "1980 Topps Baseball (726 cards)". Since there were 726 cards in that set, people that ordered the cards assumed they were getting a complete set. What they got was 726 1980 Topps cards - perhaps all commons. IIRC, the magazine then banned the person/company from advertising in their magazine.
  • I don't think Legendary is at fault here as people who collect the 54 Bowman set would know about the Williams short print. It should be obvious that if the Williams card was not listed in the auction description, it's not included. It's similar with the 1933 Goudey set. Most complete set descriptions do not include the #106 Lajoie card even though you would technically need it for a "complete" set. However that card is worth like 10X more than any other card in the set, and it's a set w/ four Babe Ruth's.
  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>i think variations are different than missing players. Yeah sure there is two different but why would they just clearly say no williams , easy enough. I dont expect anyone to state variation of colors or errors not included thats senseless , but if there is a player card that is not included that should always be stated.

    Not everyone is educated in sets. As a business standpoint, I do not understand why you would not do it. You could easily get a chargeback , and lose. >>


    Try buying a 'complete' 1972 Topps FB set, most all of them are missing the entire 3rd series, some w/no mention either way and you can tell by the price which it is ($300-400 w/o, $3000+ w). Before dropping over a grand on a set, I'd sure as heck become educated.
  • bobsbbcardsbobsbbcards Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm not educated on the big deal of if the Piersall card is included or not. What's the deal with that particular card making up for no Williams? >>



    The Piersall was the replacement card #66 (same as Williams) when the Williams was pulled. Set is complete with 224 cards (as auction said). Would it have been in their best interest to say NO WILLIAMS. You betcha.
  • tkd7tkd7 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭
    The PSA set registry calls out both #66 Piersall and #66 Williams as part of the complete basic set. Legendary should just have added a disclaimer that Williams was not included.


    http://www.psacard.com/PSASetRegistry/SetComposition.aspx?c=640
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