Update: photos … Vietnam coinage + history lesson

LochNESS · July 9, 2013 8:26AM

Please enlighten. I'm confused about this, having not yet been born when this took place ... no this is about pre-Vietnam-US-war so you can rest your arguments about that era ...

Coinage from 1945-46, in Krause is listed as North Viet Nam, "Rebel Communist State" ... but Wikipedia claims the following: "right after Japan surrendered to the Allied forces in 1945, the Democratic Republic of Vietnam was proclaimed in Hanoi, with new Government set up over the entire country..."

The new government they refer to was led by Ho Chi Minh. What I am asking is, was North Vietnam a rebel communist state? or a democratic republic?

That line, if any, should be easily distinguished.

mudskippie · July 9, 2013 9:43AM

Democratic Republic of Vietnam was proclaimed in 1945 by the Viet-Minh but was not recognized 'til 1954 when the French was defeated. And when Japanese troops surrendered, Hanoi, the capital, was controlled by both the French and the Viet-Minh. Later, The Viet-Minh launched a rebellion against French colonial authority and minted their own coinage to use in areas under their control. To answer your question: in 1945, North Vietnam was not a rebel communist state, but areas under Viet-Minh's control in the North were considered a rebel communist state.

SaorAlba · July 9, 2013 10:26AM

It was neither a rebel communist state as it was a bonafide nation albeit without a lot of international recognition. Even the USSR was against the formation of the Republic as at that point they didn't want to ruffle the French. But it was not really a "democratic" republic either but a good old time Stalinist regime.

LochNESS · July 9, 2013 11:19AM

Thank you both for the reply!!! I believe this is the root of my confusion:

<< Democratic Republic of Vietnam was proclaimed in 1945 by the Viet-Minh ... ... areas under Viet-Minh's control in the North were considered a rebel communist state. >>

So, they referred to themselves as Democratic, but everyone else (France) called them Communist?

EVillageProwler · July 9, 2013 12:52PM

Ho Chi Minh was neither communist nor democrat. What he was a patriot and a nationalist. He would do anything in pursuit of a free Vietnam. He drafted his Constitution after America's. He behaved like a democrat to try to secure American support. He behaved like a communist later on to secure Soviet and Chinese support. His only ideology was a free and unified Vietnam.

EVP

mudskippie · July 9, 2013 2:18PM

<< So, they referred to themselves as Democratic, but everyone else (France) called them Communist? >>

Viet-Minh or League for the Independence of Vietnam was a coalition formed by mainly the communists and the nationalists, hence the name Democratic Republic of Vietnam. They fought together against the French for a few years, then came the time when the communists overtook the organization and most nationalists were assassinated, converted or fled to the South.

LochNESS · July 9, 2013 2:19PM

OK how about this one ... Should I call it North Viet Nam? or just Viet Nam?

I'm trying to decide how to list a 1946 piece in my ledger. It's definitely not "South" nam, but I'm not sure if it's "North" or not.

edit: thanks again for the replies! I really appreciate the help.

mudskippie · July 9, 2013 2:25PM

<< OK how about this one ... Should I call it North Viet Nam? or just Viet Nam?

I'm trying to decide how to list a 1946 piece in my ledger. It's definitely not "South" nam, but I'm not sure if it's "North" or not. >>

I have a few myself and listed them as Vietnam. But when you sell them, make sure you mention "Communist Rebel State", it's an attractive name!

Sapyx · July 9, 2013 10:05PM

<< OK how about this one ... Should I call it North Viet Nam? or just Viet Nam?

I'm trying to decide how to list a 1946 piece in my ledger. It's definitely not "South" nam, but I'm not sure if it's "North" or not. >>

I have four subdivisions in my coin database for Vietnam: "Post-war" united communist, North, South and "Pre-war" communist.

SaorAlba · July 9, 2013 10:29PM

Vietnamese history presents a lot of dilemmas because of the outside power players that tried to influence what was going on. For instance the Japanese occupation of a territory that was claimed by Vichy France and their hostile occupation of a people that desired their own independence and wanted little or nothing to do with Japan's Greater SE Asia Co-prosperity Sphere is interesting. Ho Chi Minh and his cadre of military generals were nothing short of brilliant when it came to playing the outside forces and defeating superpowers. One of the generals that was largely responsible for the defeat of the French and later the USA, General Vo Nguyen Giap is still alive at nearly 102 years old.

For me collecting coins was started because of the Vietnam war, my dad returned from SE Asia in 1973 and gave me a bag full of Vietnamese coins and notes and of course MPC's - the start of my collecting.

LochNESS · July 10, 2013 1:40PM

Wow! I'm really glad I started this thread now, I love reading these kinds of story posts.

I'm sorry to have to keep asking but I just want to get this right in my head ... Sapyx did you post those in chronological order?

"Post-war" united communist as in post WWII? - - North, South - - and "Pre-war" communist as in pre-Vietnam War?

Sapyx · July 10, 2013 4:06PM

<< I'm sorry to have to keep asking but I just want to get this right in my head ... Sapyx did you post those in chronological order?

>>

Sorry, that's reverse chronological order. "War", in this context, refers to the French-Indochina / Vietnam wars.

spoon · July 12, 2013 10:08AM

Might be OT for this thread, but any thread on Vietnamese coinage deserves a link to this wonderful site: http://art-hanoi.com/collection/

Back when I first started seriously collecting coins I started with colonies and this was a great resource before I got around to buying a Krause.

Also be sure to check out the French Indochina banknotes - some really beautiful stuff there!

LochNESS · July 15, 2013 5:54PM

Now that it's arrived …

ormandh · July 17, 2013 8:56AM

Nice coin!

LochNESS · July 17, 2013 2:01PM

Thanks!

Update: photos … Vietnam coinage + history lesson

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