Question about standards for PSA minimum size requirements

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BaltimoreYankee
BaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
The PSA web site says a card will be N6 Min Size Req "When a card is significantly undersized according to factory specifications.

Can anyone tell me what the factory specifications are for 1975 Topps minis? Also would the factory specs for modern Topps be 2 1/2" X 3 1/2"? What is generally considered to be 'significantly' undersized? To take the judgment out, wouldn't it be better to say it has to be within 2 millimeters, or something like that?
Daniel

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  • llafoe
    llafoe Posts: 7,220 ✭✭
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    << <i>To take the judgment out, wouldn't it be better to say it has to be within 2 millimeters, or something like that? >>



    A percentage would be great +/- 3%
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  • itzagoner
    itzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
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    it would be an exact science. except......

    there have been numerous discussions about cards which were N6'd and then resubbed successfully.

    also cards which received grades from other 3rd parties and subsequently were rejected by PSA.

    at this point, to say that the judgement should be taken out would also reject the notion that a PSA grader is adequately prepared to make an assessment without metric assistance.

    so it can't be science. but, it can be folklore.
  • miwlvrn
    miwlvrn Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I looked into the issue of min size tolerance regarding grading of 1968 OPC baseball "shorties". PSA said strict 2.5" x 3.5", no variance. Here is the reply from SGC:

    "We will allow up to a 1/16 or so short. This all depends on wether we like the cut on the card. We will holder cards smaller then the usual dimensions, as long as we like the cut. So it would be diffucult to tell with out seeing them. Just us your judgement, as long as they dont look really short and the cut looks good to you. Go ahead and send them in. Hope this helps. Thanks for using SGC."

    However, they decided that the 1968 OPC shorties were still too short to grade anyway and returned them raw. I almost always send my cards in to SGC after they are returned to me by PSA raw for a N6 min size or N8 miscut, and the 1968 OPC baseball shorties are the only ones that were not graded by either party. All the rest of my min size / miscut from PSA were subsequently graded by SGC, though I only send in ones that I cannot find any size difference from standard when I inspect them closely myself. Obvious miscuts are never submitted for grading in the first place. Personally I think that a min size or miscut should be relative to the issuance of a specific card from the factory, and not as comparison to others in the same set, such that if a card was only issued slightly smaller than standard by the factory for some reason, that should be considered the expected size of that particular card and it therefore should be considered acceptable for grading based on its dimensions. Min size and miscut should only apply if a card was available with different cuts from the factory, which does not seem to be the case for some OPC baseball.
  • llafoe
    llafoe Posts: 7,220 ✭✭
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    << <i>This all depends on wether we like the cut on the card. Thanks for using SGC." >>



    Okay boys and girls... don't forget to use a professional grade paper cutter before submitting your cards to SGC! image
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  • mattinglymint23
    mattinglymint23 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭
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    i've had the N6 with full size 75T BB and 71T BB, both from vending
    i always thought the tolerance was -1/32" but have had N6 on those, literally a hair narrow -

    neve had a problem with something oversized by 1/32" or less -
  • PSARich
    PSARich Posts: 534 ✭✭✭
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    To add a little more intrigue, I have had several cards not receive a grade but rather a N6 Minimum Size Requirement because they exceeded normal size specifications. I remember in one order getting 3-4 1974 Topps back that were about 1/8" wider than normal while the T-B was on target. I suppose they didn't fit into the holder. I have also had cards that were about 1/8" longer than the typical size get rejected. Several years ago I sent back a nice HOF vintage card that received a N6 for being too large and they put it into a different holder with a bigger opening using a sleeve to hold it in place.
  • BaltimoreYankee
    BaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    mattingly - Thanks for the specific example. Something like that is what I was hoping to see on the website - something where I could measure a card and know right there if it was worth sending.

    Anyone else have examples of just how short the cards were that came back Min size?
    Daniel
  • BaltimoreYankee
    BaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Just a bump as I have my PSA package waiting for me at home. Anyone know that size a 1975 Topps mini should be?
    Daniel
  • llafoe
    llafoe Posts: 7,220 ✭✭
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    << <i>Just a bump as I have my PSA package waiting for me at home. Anyone know that size a 1975 Topps mini should be? >>



    They should be smaller than the normal 1975 cards. Any other questions? image
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  • grote15
    grote15 Posts: 30,224 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>Just a bump as I have my PSA package waiting for me at home. Anyone know that size a 1975 Topps mini should be? >>



    2.125 x 3.125 (79.4 mm)

    The cards that usually come "short" out of the pack are those with green top/yellow bottom and red top/yellow bottom, more so
    the latter than the former.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • calgarycollector
    calgarycollector Posts: 356
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    On a somewhat related note burns me when I submit a pack fresh card I pulled myself only to get a evidence of trimming "N" whatever. Got that on my last sub for both Magic/Bird and Rice rookies :-(
  • llafoe
    llafoe Posts: 7,220 ✭✭
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    << <i>On a somewhat related note burns me when I submit a pack fresh card I pulled myself only to get a evidence of trimming "N" whatever. Got that on my last sub for both Magic/Bird and Rice rookies :-( >>



    OUCH!
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  • BaltimoreYankee
    BaltimoreYankee Posts: 3,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Thanks, Tim.

    Larry - Maybe when my minis were graded, the graders thought they were 'regular' 1975 Topps. Hence the Min Size Req. image
    Daniel
  • ssollars
    ssollars Posts: 934 ✭✭✭✭
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    << <i>On a somewhat related note burns me when I submit a pack fresh card I pulled myself only to get a evidence of trimming "N" whatever. Got that on my last sub for both Magic/Bird and Rice rookies :-( >>



    It's sad that happens as much as it does. It's happened several times on a few of my subs.
  • tsalems1
    tsalems1 Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Is someone talking about 1968 OPC shortys?

    imageimageimage

    image
    opcbaseball.com
  • miwlvrn
    miwlvrn Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Did PSA decide they officially only grade them as Authentic now, even if they used to grade them a while back?
  • tsalems1
    tsalems1 Posts: 3,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    They will grade them authentic if you ask them to
    opcbaseball.com
  • miwlvrn
    miwlvrn Posts: 4,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Despite being smaller than spec, they deserve numeric grades if that's the only cut they were available in from the factory, IMO.

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