NEWP: Canada 1858 10 cents - grade?

Pokermandude · October 20, 2012 4:43AM

Quite a bit of lustre on both sides. Reverse seems prooflike (lots of vertical die polish lines), but also some minor hairlines. Obv has some minor breaks in lustre. What do you guys think? Even with it in hand I am torn between AU-58 and MS62-63.

Sorry for the tiny photos. Recently changed my setup and the only way to get proper lighting is to have the coin far away from the camera lens. Tinkering with the setup as we speak to improve this issue.

Some updated pics:

Previous pics

coinkat · October 20, 2012 4:45AM

Not sure this one will grade-

Pokermandude · October 20, 2012 5:02AM

<< <i>Not sure this one will grade- >>

You may be right. It's definitely been dipped in the past and is starting to retone in spots. Market acceptable though IMO. Most of the shininess of the reverse is from the die polish lines rather than the hairlines/old cleaning. Will try to get a pic of that. Not being able to accurately photograph ~MS silver coins is driving me mad

coinkat · October 20, 2012 5:06AM

This coin would likely do better at ICCS than PCGS

Pokermandude · October 20, 2012 5:18AM

Here's a close up showing just some of the die polish lines. Notice how they run "under" the E.

The obverse has pretty close to full lustre. A few parts of the field have some breaks, maybe due to circulation, I am not 100% sure.

But the reverse has me perplexed. The lustre is great in the devices. The middle field is lacking lustre, kind of like it has been cleaned BUT the majority of the lines are die polish lines. Given the large die break through the 1 in 10 to the C in CENTS to the 1 in 1858 I think it's fair to say that this die was nearing the end of it's life so the excessive polishing makes sense. The strike is great too.

The fact that is has surely been dipped confounds the issue some more. Since that could also explain some of the lack of lustre. Hmmm...

DoubleEagle59 · October 20, 2012 5:33AM

Based on your pics, I can say the following.

Good news: The coin definitely looks MS to me. Range most likely ms62 or ms63.

Bad news: There's a chance the coin may have been lightly polished. It could be your lighting, but the coin looks a little too 'reflective' for me.

I'd send it to ICCS.

YQQ · October 20, 2012 2:31PM

PMD, maybe it is your lighting setup. but it looks whizzed.
i had a whole bunch 3 years ago from an auctioneer in Quebec... lots of money, the "nicest coins" I had ever seen.
ALL whizzed.. and he knew it and did not declare it. back they went..
OMO, Grade of your coin at ICCS, my guess: MS 63 / cleaned, polished or whizzed.
could it be that yours is just "handled?"
here are the images I took of the coin. Looks fantastic... but whizzed.
maybe you can compare it to yours.
please note: by posting the pictures below, it is not meant to take attention away from your post. I merely wish to show the whizzed coin so you can see if there are similarities.
good luck.

hockeyfan9 · October 20, 2012 3:36PM

I like it at MS63. Nice coin!

syl · October 20, 2012 8:45PM

I'd go with a 62, based on the pictures, but it may be different in hand. I really like the die clashes (they are, aren't they?) on the Obv in from of Vicky's eyes and out the back of her hair bun ... probably there are more but you need the correct tilt angle lighting to see them all.

ajaan · October 20, 2012 9:56PM

I was thinking MS63 if it isn't whizzed.

Pokermandude · October 21, 2012 5:34AM

<< <i> I really like the die clashes (they are, aren't they?) on the Obv in from of Vicky's eyes and out the back of her hair bun >>

I am not too familiar with die clashes, but yes I think that is what most of those are. A few are contact marks, but the rest appear raised and very oddly shaped. Certainly a lot going on with this coin/die, even before trying to determine what may or may not have happened to the surfaces after it left the mint!

<< <i>PMD, maybe it is your lighting setup. but it looks whizzed.
i had a whole bunch 3 years ago from an auctioneer in Quebec... lots of money, the "nicest coins" I had ever seen.
ALL whizzed.. and he knew it and did not declare it. back they went..
OMO, Grade of your coin at ICCS, my guess: MS 63 / cleaned, polished or whizzed.
could it be that yours is just "handled?"
here are the images I took of the coin. Looks fantastic... but whizzed.
maybe you can compare it to yours.
please note: by posting the pictures below, it is not meant to take attention away from your post. I merely wish to show the whizzed coin so you can see if there are similarities.
good luck. >>

Like many here, I am here for the learning experience and I welcome constructive criticism. Thank you for posting the whizzed coin. I am 99% sure mine isn't whizzed. Whizzed coins have that very weird/non-cartwheel lustre, along with hairlines on the high points. My coin still has pretty good cartwheel lustre.

After staring at it longer and taking some more pictures, I think the "look" it has on the reverse (especially in my pictures) is from a combination of die polishing/striations, light circulation and/or cleaning hairlines, being dipped (as were many of the coins from this "hoard") and my lighting/photo techniques.

Thank you all for your input, I will at some point send this one off to get graded. Probably ICCS but I haven't decided yet for this coin and a number of others. I'm pretty sure this one will grade at any TPG, as the hairlines are pretty minor. So long as they see the majority of the vertical lines as die polish/striations as I do!

Here's some more pictures showing the surfaces a little better. The lines don't run over the relief so I am quite sure they were on the die when the coin was struck.

YQQ · October 21, 2012 6:38AM

Pokerman,
In will look for a few others in high grade, maybe it will help.

YQQ · October 21, 2012 6:38AM

Pokerman,
In will look for a few others in high grade, maybe it will help.

YQQ · October 21, 2012 6:39AM

Pokerman,
In will look for a few others in high grade, maybe it will help.

candy2012mustang · October 22, 2012 1:21AM

Looks like die polish to me

NEWP: Canada 1858 10 cents - grade?

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