Methinks this a bit odd...

brg5658

As many of you know, I dabble in exonumia (ok, maybe a bit more than dabble). Anyway, I happen to collect the "INA Retro Pattern" early issued fantasy crown pieces from Great Britain. By early issued, I mean those issued in particular in 2000 to 2001. The crown-sized pieces include those for Queen Victoria, King Edward VII, George V, and Edward VIII. The Victoria "crowns" were all dated 1879, but were struck in 2000 or 2001. These "coins" are listed in the Krause Unusual World Coins guide with X# numbers -- to denote fantasy issues.



I'll cut to the chase. Today, one of these "fantasy crowns" graded PCGS PR66RD CAM from a seller in Hong Kong, sold for $655! I was blown away by that final sale price. It was a copper example of the X#81b design (three graces reverse), with a lovely Wyon-like obverse Victoria bust. Despite what the PCGS look-up for this coin says, the mintage was 790 pieces, not 1. It was also struck in Bronze/Goldine (X#81a) and Silver (X#81). The three-metal set was issued for sale for less than 100 GBP, and can still be found on eBay (UK site) for little more than issue price (e.g., I paid $25 for my example of this fantasy issue in copper).



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Now, for my question:



1) Do you think this is a case of "shill bidding"? (see bidding activity below)



2) Just a clueless buyer, thinking this is a genuine 1879 crown proof? I do think the slab label could be a little more forthcoming with at least some wording that this is a fantasy issue.



3) Two wild bidders who really wanted this? It only takes two crazies!



Below is the auction screen shot, the slab shots from the auction, and the bidding activity of the top/winning bidder.

brg5658

Here's my $25 example:

Zohar

Brandon, here is something comparable which threw me off.



Guldiner restrike on CNG - LINK



I spoke to CNG's representative today at the lot viewing session examining the real Guldiner and he indicated that the buyer was fully aware of the restrike at hand and was willing to pay this much for it.

brg5658

Originally posted by: Zohar

Brandon, here is something comparable which threw me off.



Guldiner restrike on CNG - LINK



I spoke to CNG's representative today at the lot viewing session examining the real Guldiner and he indicated that the buyer was fully aware of the restrike at hand and was willing to pay this much for it.

Maybe restrikes and fantasy coins are coming into fashion?

Zohar

They can have mine for 25% of that price!

JCMhouston

Confucians is a pretty well known seller. I wouldn't think he would be involved with shilling, but I guess you never know.

brg5658

Originally posted by: JCMhouston

Confucians is a pretty well known seller. I wouldn't think he would be involved with shilling, but I guess you never know.

I agree with you. Which is what had me scratching my head. This is at most a $150 coin under normal circumstances -- so my final conclusion was that these two people just really had to have this one.



I guess this bodes well for me if these are becoming popular.

ACop

Looks like 3 crazy bidders.

Broadstruck

Between the listing description and slab label not stating anything but 1879...



I believe a few of the bidders might have felt this was actually struck then and not a 15 year old fantasy re-strike.



I would just consider this a fluke as the auction may have had a few bidders that bid without doing any homework.

brg5658

Originally posted by: Broadstruck

Between the listing description and slab label not stating anything but 1879...



I believe a few of the bidders might have felt this was actually struck then and not a 15 year old fantasy re-strike.



I would just consider this a fluke as the auction may have had a few bidders that bid without doing any homework.

Broadie -- it's not a restrike -- as there was no original struck with that design ever. It is a purely fantasy issue.



My reference to "restrike" was to the coin that Zohar posted -- which is a true restrike of a 1486 coin design.

7Jaguars

You know, I have seen these INAs go for the 360 or so range a couple of times.



Have to say I paid 500 pounds at Spink auction for each of three INA crowns!







Well, they were unique and struck in gold - one weighed 42.0 grams....

brg5658

Originally posted by: 7Jaguars

You know, I have seen these INAs go for the 360 or so range a couple of times.



Have to say I paid 500 pounds at Spink auction for each of three INA crowns!







Well, they were unique and struck in gold - one weighed 42.0 grams....

Atlas Numismatics has had a few of the Aluminum 1808 George III INA fantasy pieces (struck circa 2007 in mintages of 500-1000 pieces) priced at the $350 point or so graded by PCGS. You can still buy them raw for around $6-10 each! Now that's some plastic mark-up!

7Jaguars

Ok, let's not go there! LOL! That is a rip, maybe they are distributors?

Hussulo

Probably due to bidders not knowing what they are bidding on. They must of thought they were buying a pattern coin struck in 1879. On the PCGS slab the date is presented in commas as a way to say its the date of the coin but not when it was struck.



I think collectors need to educate themselves before dropping over the odds money on coins. PCGS perhaps should have had FANTASY on the label to help some collectors as these coins weren't officially struck.