New Strategy

Taylor101

Hello!
I have came up with a new strategy in buying coins. If it costs over 20 dollars, it has to be slabed by PCGS or, NGC. Anybody else use this strategy, or a similar one? This way I can organize my collection easier. But if I see a raw deal, I might just snap.
Taylor

magikbilly

<< <i>Hello!
I have came up with a new strategy in buying coins. If it costs over 20 dollars, it has to be slabed by PCGS or, NGC. Anybody else use this strategy, or a similar one? This way I can organize my collection easier. But if I see a raw deal, I might just snap.
Taylor >>



Hi Taylor,

That sounds like a really good plan with good reasoning - raw coins can be risky, especially early on, so very good thinking. Lots of nice coins out there for $20 too - even under - a number of 1940's 1C can be had in Gem MS65 for $18 or so. Pr63's can be had for about triple that amount, maybe $60 or so, if you can find them nice (little to no spotting, nice brown and not too distracting hairlines).
As far as organizing, this was my method. I used to use PolyPro standard postcard sleeves for the slabs. I'd slip the slab in the sleeve and place that into a standard PVC free Ultra Pro 4 pocket archival postcard page which I kept in a nice binder. It keeps the slabs from getting scratched and you can slip a bit of paper in there as well with any notes like how much you paid etc. This method works just as well with NGC slabs - both types of slabs fit nicely.
If you insert the slab into the sleeve from the bottom up and then into the page the slabs don't fall out of the binder - at least not with lighter coins under 50C. I used to collect 10C.

Have a good Sunday!

Eric

Taylor101

<< <i>

<< <i>Hello!
I have came up with a new strategy in buying coins. If it costs over 20 dollars, it has to be slabed by PCGS or, NGC. Anybody else use this strategy, or a similar one? This way I can organize my collection easier. But if I see a raw deal, I might just snap.
Taylor >>



Hi Taylor,

That sounds like a really good plan with good reasoning - raw coins can be risky, especially early on, so very good thinking. Lots of nice coins out there for $20 too - even under - a number of 1940's 1C can be had in Gem MS65 for $18 or so. Pr63's can be had for about triple that amount, maybe $60 or so, if you can find them nice (little to no spotting, nice brown and not too distracting hairlines).
As far as organizing, this was my method. I used to use PolyPro standard postcard sleeves for the slabs. I'd slip the slab in the sleeve and place that into a standard PVC free Ultra Pro 4 pocket archival postcard page which I kept in a nice binder. It keeps the slabs from getting scratched and you can slip a bit of paper in there as well with any notes like how much you paid etc. This method works just as well with NGC slabs - both types of slabs fit nicely.
If you insert the slab into the sleeve from the bottom up and then into the page the slabs don't fall out of the binder - at least not with lighter coins under 50C. I used to collect 10C.

Have a good Sunday!

Eric >>


WOW! Thank you so much for devoting your time and energy to replying. I have handwriting issues, so writing on 2x2s aint cutting it. I want it nearly perfect, so slabs do that for me.
Taylor

lcoopie

Since the cost of slabbing is at least $20, then if you buy slabbed coins at your low price point you are mostly paying for the holder and not the coin.

NotSure

<< <i>Since the cost of stabbing is at least $20, then if you buy slabbed coins at your low price point you are mostly paying for the holder and not the coin. >>



The cost of stabbing is only $20????? PM me, as I have an ex-girlfriend, who........

Tdec1000

Coin collectors from the old days would shun you for such talk!

Taylor101

<< <i>

<< <i>Since the cost of stabbing is at least $20, then if you buy slabbed coins at your low price point you are mostly paying for the holder and not the coin. >>



The cost of stabbing is only $20????? PM me, as I have an ex-girlfriend, who........ >>


LOL! @lcoopie- I am aware of this. I mean, if it has a price point in AG of 20 dollars, and I buy it in EF, it needs to be slabbed. Follow?
Taylor

magikbilly

<< Since the cost of stabbing is at least $20, then if you buy slabbed coins at your low price point you are mostly paying for the holder and not the coin. >>



<<The cost of stabbing is only $20????? PM me, as I have an ex-girlfriend, who........ >>



What with medical costs, insurance, band aids and rug cleaner (RD blood cells are copper, but the stains tend to go Rd - Rd Bn) and the like, sLabbing is obviously the way to go.

Eric

magikbilly

<< <i>WOW! Thank you so much for devoting your time and energy to replying. I have handwriting issues, so writing on 2x2s aint cutting it. I want it nearly perfect, so slabs do that for me.
Taylor >>



Hi Taylor,

You're very welcome. My handwriting is atrocious. It used to be OK, but the older I get the bigger it has become and less legible. Ambro51 showed us a while back that he was doing notations on 2X2's the old fashioned way for his coppers- typing! They really looked great. When I was a kid in the 70's thats how the older, better coins came from my local coin shop. Maybe you could use a small format and font and create little tags in Photoshop and print/trim them with paper like the kind used for greeting cards? It would be very neat, all would look the same and it makes a nice presentation.

I always liked lower cost MS cents and older circulated things. As a collector they are very enjoyable, maybe more so, and you don't go broke in the process of putting together nice little sets to enjoy. Are you trying to assemble anything deliberately? After a time collecting all kinds of things (not just coins), I find sets, of any definition, are really fun.

Best wishes,
Eric

unclebob

I like varieties, and in some ways I look at plastic as a form of insurance.

I saw alot of RAW coins yesterday. My thought is after two decades of grading services, anything worth grading should have already been slabbed.

Anything of value outside of a NGC or PCGS holder I consider RAW.

I saw coins in lesser regarded TPG's that have been in a particular dealer inventory for years.

Sad but true.

For example, yesterday I was looking at a VF20 Merc 1942/41 at Greysheet bid of $460. If it had been in a PCGS holder, I would have felt confident and likely haggled for a few dollars off and bought the coin. It was attractive coin but in an ICG holder. Since I really know nothing about Mercs or the variety, I passed worried it might be a fake. Made no sense in insulting the dealer with a lowball offer. Made no sense worrying whether it would cross. Made no sense the coin was in a ICG holder. No worries... when he comes around next month to the local show, I'm sure it will still be in his inventory.

I'm feeling more confident with Buffalo Nickels, so I purchased a RAW BU example to submit and test my grading skills.

It's funny, because $20 was my comfort zone.

However, I'm budgeting money to become a better grader and judge of raw coins.

FWIW... A dealer at yesterday's show had all of his low end Buffalo Nickels (and I assume all raw coins) in 2x2's with what looked like bar codes with stickers, which looked clean and organized.

Jcarney

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Since the cost of stabbing is at least $20, then if you buy slabbed coins at your low price point you are mostly paying for the holder and not the coin. >>



The cost of stabbing is only $20????? PM me, as I have an ex-girlfriend, who........ >>


LOL! @lcoopie- I am aware of this. I mean, if it has a price point in AG of 20 dollars, and I buy it in EF, it needs to be slabbed. Follow?
Taylor >>



Following that reasoning I would've had to pass on this $30 beauty.



Not that your reasoning is flawed, just the price threshold, in my opinion. Personally, I prefer to only buy slabbed if the coin is over $150 or so and I'm not very comfortable with the series.

dbcoin

Personally, I prefer to only buy slabbed if the coin is over $150 or so and I'm not very comfortable with the series.


That seems like a reasonable number. It has to be at least higher than the cost of grading. $20 seems low. I'm sure everyone's number is different. Some higher, some lower.

Taylor101

<< <i>Personally, I prefer to only buy slabbed if the coin is over $150 or so and I'm not very comfortable with the series.


That seems like a reasonable number. It has to be at least higher than the cost of grading. $20 seems low. I'm sure everyone's number is different. Some higher, some lower. >>


Yup. Because of, again, my age, I would not even consider buying a coin of that price point. 100 dollars would be the limit. tops. I guess I threw 20 dollars out there because I wanted to play in the big guys game, not the peewee games.
Taylor

TwoSides2aCoin

Let me steer this cart , for fun, just a little bit for you Taylor

Hello,
I have came up with a new strategy in buying coins. If it costs over 20 dollars, I have to get it for less....

Signed,
~A WalMart Shopper~

ambro51

<< <i> I guess I threw 20 dollars out there because I wanted to play in the big guys game, not the peewee games. >>

.......uhhh, hate to tell ya, but the "big guys game" begins with $10,000 and over coins.

magikbilly

Hi Taylor,

I say BAH to the above! It is all vantage and knowledge, Taylor. Play your own "game" by your own rules with open ears/eyes while remaining realistic. Realism (while not settling) is one of the keys to happiness. Always aim high of course.
I have stuff that I collect published in books and catalogs that I paid way less than $20 for! No, not coins. I am not a coin collector! That is a hobby, distant from my larger, "real" hobbies like buying/selling/authenticating/leasing ocean liner memorabilia and 1939 New York World's Fair Kodachrome imagery etc..

Eric

TwoSides2aCoin

Some of the greatest collectors I know buy out of "junk boxes for less than a dollar".

magikbilly

<< <i>Some of the greatest collectors I know buy out of "junk boxes for less than a dollar". >>



I agree! From my own experience, I once bought a photograph C. 1920 taken on board the Titanic's sister RMS Olympic for 25 cents in NYC. I showed to one of the most respected dealers alive at the time, who failed to recognize what ship this was! I eventually sold it for well over 1000 times what I paid, it was published and everyone was happy - me, my buyer who got a very good "market" price and the guy who sold it to me as he likely paid $5 for the entire box of perhaps 1000 snapshots of everything/anything. This was not a unique experience.

Eric

daOnlyBG

Taylor,

Let me suggest a slight tweaking to your strategy: for coins under $20 that you really like, buy them raw. For coins above $20, buy them slabbed..HOWEVER- if there are coins priced over $20 but selling at a bullion-level price, go ahead and buy those raw as well. Let me give you an example:

You see a Silver Eagle discounted at $24. It's raw. Do you walk away from it, just because it's raw? No! You buy it! The very least you'll get back for it is its spot price. Suppose the spot price of silver drops a little? You can still attach a small premium of $1-2 when selling the coin, or you can hold onto it until the price of silver rises again.

Suppose it's not silver, but gold- you see an international gold bullion coin ($2.5 Mexican pesos, for example) and it's priced really close to spot. It's worth well over $20- its melt value alone is $88 or so. Well, one guy's looking to clear his stock and sells it to you for $80-85 (not an unreasonable price to sell them). It's not slabbed, like most of them. Would it be wise to simply dismiss the coin? Not at all!

Also, I'd just like to add, the older ANACS holders (first couple generations) are really good- you might want to include those in your slab options as well.

Good luck with your collecting!

keyman64

Your line of thinking is a good one Taylor.

As you become more experienced in a series that you can say you specialize in, your price point might change a bit but the same principles will apply. Unless the coin is a rare variety, I generally only buy slabbed coins. There are exceptions like when the coin has a return policy, is coming from a dealer I know, trust and would never stear me wrong or a trusted friend. For me, if the coin is $100-300+ then it needs to be in a slab for me to buy it. There will be exceptions that crop up though but mainly when the coin is a rare variety that I am Cherrypicking. Since it costs money for shipping plus getting the coins slabbed, it is always nice when you can get a nice coin for the grade in a holder at a cheap price because there is a good chance someone else lost money and you are the one that benefits. This can frequently happen when a person thinks a coin will grade at a certain level that makes slabbing worth it...then when the coin comes back in a lower than expected grade, it isn't worth it to the person to send it back in so it gets sold for a loss.

As your knowledge grows, the principle stays the same but the price point changes. If you have not already done so, I would suggest you create a free account on HA.com that allows you to search their auction records. This will allow you to search a specific coin and date of interest in a grade you have an interest in and then really study those photos so that when the time comes where you find one you want at a show, you will know exactly what you are looking for.

Remember, dealers are frequently smart and well experienced generalists. They do not have the time to learn everything about each series. So when a coin is raw they might assign a lower grade than it actually should be. At that moment is when you need to toss your rules out the window, use your specialized knowledge and jump at the opportunity. This will come with time and experience. Study hard and you can come out on top! Good luck.

sparky64

I agree with Eric when he says "play your own game....."
Keep yourself educated so as not to become "lazy" by only relying on grading services opinions.
As I'm sure you know, two identically slabbed coins priced at say $50 each, may not be indeed identical. Chances are one of them will be a better purchase.
With continued education I can see you raising that $20 raw coin limit in short order.
-Mark

Taylor101

<< <i>I agree with Eric when he says "play your own game....."
Keep yourself educated so as not to become "lazy" by only relying on grading services opinions.
As I'm sure you know, two identically slabbed coins priced at say $50 each, may not be indeed identical. Chances are one of them will be a better purchase.
With continued education I can see you raising that $20 raw coin limit in short order.
-Mark >>


Thank you for that help. I will raise that limit for sure when I get a job. Hopefully at a coin shop.
Taylor

Shamika

$20 is a bit low. Anything slightly greater than $20 will rarely be slabbed. Most will be mistakes.

NotSure

Taylor...I know what you are feeling. I'm only in my mid 20's, and felt the same way you do, as far as 'wanting to swim in the big pond', when I was younger. Worry not. Make informed decisions, put away 'coin money' (don't touch it, only for coins...not even girls!), learn all you can, and in time (I got interested when I was, oh, age 12ish...couldn't wait to buy more expensive coins), you'll achieve some, if not most, of what you want to get out of the hobby0.

Now, almost 15 years later, I STILL can't buy BIG money coins (but I can buy much nicer coins than I could back then), but those dollars I put away, and buying smart, you'll find you'll own coins that you might not think you'll ever own. I knew things were changing when I got my '55 DDO (only AU53, but I GOT ONE, ALWAYS wanted one!). The older you get, the more $$ you'll find you make. Don't put the cart before the horse....patience, grasshopper, you'll get there!

Taylor101

<< <i>Taylor...I know what you are feeling. I'm only in my mid 20's, and felt the same way you do, as far as 'wanting to swim in the big pond', when I was younger. Worry not. Make informed decisions, put away 'coin money' (don't touch it, only for coins...not even girls!), learn all you can, and in time (I got interested when I was, oh, age 12ish...couldn't wait to buy more expensive coins), you'll achieve some, if not most, of what you want to get out of the hobby0.

Now, almost 15 years later, I STILL can't buy BIG money coins (but I can buy much nicer coins than I could back then), but those dollars I put away, and buying smart, you'll find you'll own coins that you might not think you'll ever own. I knew things were changing when I got my '55 DDO (only AU53, but I GOT ONE, ALWAYS wanted one!). The older you get, the more $$ you'll find you make. Don't put the cart before the horse....patience, grasshopper, you'll get there! >>


Thank you for the advice. It means alot!
Taylor

AMRC

Do not buy $20 coins. Save the money you would spend on 25 coins and buy a $500 coin. Much easier if you ever have to sell as well.
Do not buy coins not in slabs? Contrary to many of the comments, you almost never pay for the slabbing. That is a sunk cost, and there are folks that send coins in hopping for a grade that would make the cost of slabbing make sense, only to have the coin back come in at a grade that makes it worth at or less than the cost of slabbing. Just ask me how I know. I have a few Jefferson's that (back in the day) I was hoping would come back with Reverse of 38 on the slab. They did not, and are worth about a dollar. Wish I could ask the 16.50 I paid to grade them, but I could wish for a lot of things.
Also, I would not call this a strategy so much as a personal rule. A strategy would be something like stalking eBay sellers with misworded Ads, or making a Best Offer on many coins to see if any hit.

WTCG

$20 is too low of a threshold. There are countless excellent buys out there for raw coins that cost more than that. Depending on the series, a $150 to $200 threshold is more reasonable.

Type2

Yup this can be a road block for you if you do not buy raw. I call it "coin shy", You can find some Very Very good deals at the right prices if you buy raw alway pick your fights if it's to much for you walk away, If you are not shur just take some time to think it over but rember you can alway pass. But you shuld buy raw just buy the right one. Sharpen your eye's a bit, This is the way i look at it if i can get a raw coin let's say a MS62 for a AU58 price i'll take the chance. But if he or she wants MS61 money for a MS62 i'll need to think this one over for a bit. There is just to much that can go wrong if i send it in for grading and the gap is just to small to get my $$$ back if i need to off the coin so i may pass on it the only time i will not pass if i know for shur it will go in a holder some you just know. I think the bigest mistake one makes is they dont ask for a discount when a coin should be discounted. Just have fun shopping and look at all the cool stuff in holders this will help you so when you see it in the raw you can jump on it.

Jcarney

<< <i>$20 is a bit low. Anything slightly greater than $20 will rarely be slabbed. Most will be mistakes. >>



Ah, but those mistakes may be very good buys. Say, for example, MS64 Franklins. Most people don't send in a Franklin hoping for the 64 grade, they're looking for a gem grade and a lot of the 64s out there are near misses. I've seen many more nice for the grade 64s than 65s. Assembling a set of nice, graded 64 Franklins can be fun, relatively inexpensive and not too difficult.

Taylor101

<< <i>

<< <i>$20 is a bit low. Anything slightly greater than $20 will rarely be slabbed. Most will be mistakes. >>



Ah, but those mistakes may be very good buys. Say, for example, MS64 Franklins. Most people don't send in a Franklin hoping for the 64 grade, they're looking for a gem grade and a lot of the 64s out there are near misses. I've seen many more nice for the grade 64s than 65s. Assembling a set of nice, graded 64 Franklins can be fun, relatively inexpensive and not too difficult. >>


I was actually thinking of this. Sounds like fun.
Taylor (forum originator)

Cougar1978

Its your money, your hobby.

If that strategy works, go for it. I would keep it to myself at a show.

For ebay I simply specify (Pcgs, ngc, pmg) in my search......

CuKevin

<< <i>Do not buy $20 coins. Save the money you would spend on 25 coins and buy a $500 coin. >>



I agree. Excellent advice for the young collector.

Taylor101

<< <i>

<< <i>Do not buy $20 coins. Save the money you would spend on 25 coins and buy a $500 coin. >>



I agree. Excellent advice for the young collector. >>


I agree. It is hard sometimes.
Taylor

Frankcoins

<< <i>Hello!
I have came up with a new strategy in buying coins. If it costs over 20 dollars, it has to be slabed by PCGS or, NGC. Anybody else use this strategy, or a similar one? This way I can organize my collection easier. But if I see a raw deal, I might just snap.
Taylor >>



I would use $100 as a limit, otherwise you are going to have a lot of coins where the plastic is worth more than the coin.

Coppercolor

I would first decide if you're doing the show for fun or if you would like to go into business.

If you're a collector, save up and buy what makes you happy. Pay some attention to value and ability to resell at a level where you minimize your losses or perhaps make the occasional gain.

If you want to make a business out of it, as I see it there are multiple strategies that you could give some thought to:
1) Develop an eye for what sells, buy material and mark it up a little for resale. This is what most do but it is a tried and true tactic. Turnover of inventory is comparatively slow, and return on investment is slow. Compared to the next three options you need a lot of working capital to make this work if you're going to make a living. I know that's way past your OP but it's worth mentioning.

Develop skills in the following areas
2) Learn to identify raw material that grading companies will grade and have higher value just by being in plastic. This is probably a little faster return on investment
3) find unnatributed varieties that when identified automatically jump in price. Faster return on investment as varieties are usually in demand. Comparativley low capital required
4) learn how to grade and find undergraded material, upgrade it an resell at multiples. This is the highest return on investment but hardest to pull off. Lots of skill required. Comparativley low capital required

No matter what model you choose, or models, you'll need to pay close attention to operationg cash. This will be a function of how fast you turn inventory over and want to make sure you always have enough capital (money) to buy when you have a good opportunity. The most frustrating experience will be finding undervalued material and not having cash to buy.....

Taylor101

Thank you all for your comments.
Taylor

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