~*~*~ Lord Marcovan's "Twelve Caesars" Roman Imperial Collection ~*~*~

lordmarcovan

I retired this collection in 2013 and have since sold off the coins, but I was proud to say I accomplished a collection along the popular and challenging "Twelve Caesars" theme, which was quite challenging on my modest budget. Considering I stayed under $500/coin here, even for the Julius Caesar and the Otho (though I did have to stretch a tiny bit above that for the Caligula), I think I did OK and managed to put together a fairly respectable collection. They looked nice in the fancy wooden box I got for them, too.

lordmarcovan

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JULIUS CAESAR (d. 44 BC), silver denarius, lifetime issue struck February-March 44 BC by moneyer C. Cossutius Maridianus

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AUGUSTUS (27 BC-14 AD), bronze as, struck ca. 7 BC, moneyer M. Salvius Otho

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TIBERIUS (14-37 AD), silver denarius- the biblical "Tribute Penny"

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GAIUS "CALIGULA" (37-41 AD), bronze as

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CLAUDIUS (41-54 AD), bronze as

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NERO, orichalcum dupondius, struck ca. 64 AD

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GALBA (68-69 AD, bronze as

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OTHO (January-April, 69 AD) silver denarius

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VITELLIUS (April-December, 69 AD) silver denarius

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VESPASIAN (69-79 AD), silver denarius, "Judaea Capta" type

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TITUS (79-81 AD): silver denarius, struck ca. 80 AD

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DOMITIAN (81-96 AD), silver denarius, struck ca. 92 AD

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lordmarcovan

(This space is for pending upgrades and stuff that hasn't been slabbed yet.)

lordmarcovan

(This post is for further expansion, if necessary)

lordmarcovan

OK, that should do it. Again, sorry for all the flurry of multiple posts.

This gives me room to expand the set later, and to categorize it by periods and/or dynasties, if I go for the whole Empire like I did last time.

Aethelred

Very nice looking collection!

Aethelred

But why the plastic tombs?

WillieBoyd2

Nice set!

I remember the Nero coin with the space shuttle on it.

SmEagle1795

Great set! I'm wondering if you've experienced any unwanted toning/changes with the wood box? I have a similar display case here and have started worrying based on some threads I've been reading about wood damaging coins. I've since moved my collection over into a plastic PCGS box as I have yet to find a good display case made of plastic.

BS

That's a very cool collection.

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Great set! I'm wondering if you've experienced any unwanted toning/changes with the wood box? >>

No, but then I haven't had them in the box a terribly long time, either. But considering they're in plastic slabs and a good many of them are already patinated, I'd say it's not a major concern of mine. I'd worry more about modern silver or red copper coins, particularly proofs, when it came to concerns about toning in the box.

LochNESS

<< <i>

<< <i>Great set! I'm wondering if you've experienced any unwanted toning/changes with the wood box? >>

No, but then I haven't had them in the box a terribly long time, either. But considering they're in plastic slabs and a good many of them are already patinated, I'd say it's not a major concern of mine. I'd worry more about modern silver or red copper coins, particularly proofs, when it came to concerns about toning in the box. >>


Just remembered I have a 1935 silver crown in an airtite holder in one of those wooden boxes. Excuse me ...

olmanjon

I have had a mahogany case about 15" cube since the early 70's with coins in it and not a one of them has shown any change in toning. Seems to work for mahogany-I don't know if it works with something like oak-walnut or some other hardwood though. My silver coins that were in the old whitman holders that you use to buy for 35 cents all tarnished an ugly black and I ended up selling them all at silver around 7 years ago. I still cringe when I think of selling early halves at silver.

SmEagle1795

<< <i>I have had a mahogany case about 15" cube since the early 70's with coins in it and not a one of them has shown any change in toning. Seems to work for mahogany-I don't know if it works with something like oak-walnut or some other hardwood though. My silver coins that were in the old whitman holders that you use to buy for 35 cents all tarnished an ugly black and I ended up selling them all at silver around 7 years ago. I still cringe when I think of selling early halves at silver. >>



From what I've read, mahogany outgasses the least out of the various types of wood for coins. As I can't find an airtite thick enough for some of my ancients, I may end up going for a more conventional cabinet (and I'm not fully committed to slabs yet, lordm, as NGC just greatly increased their slabbing costs at tiers applicable to some of my coins, which I'm definitely not interested in paying).

LochNESS

This may be due to the fact that mahogany is one of the denser woods around. Where as swamp ash is very porous and may absorb/release more gas over time. Just a theory, I'm not a scientist.

lordmarcovan

If I had it to do over again, I might have done AirTites instead of NGC slabs, but who knows.

OldEastside

Steve

Aethelred

<< <i>If I had it to do over again, I might have done AirTites instead of NGC slabs, but who knows. >>



In a perverse way, I kinda like the slabs.

LochNESS

<< <i>In a perverse way, I kinda like the slabs. >>


You mean, like they are coffins for the ancient emperors? That's how I see it. Little sarcophagi.

500Bay

I like the slabs, too

FilthyBroke

<< <i> Little sarcophagi. >>



I like that. At least he got good pics before putting them to rest in those claw holders.

nicholasz219

I really like this collection and this thread Lord Marcovan. You inspired me to start my own 12 Caesars set. I am going along quite well for only a few months, admittedly with lower grade pieces. I can say that finding a lower grade Augustus in a dealer ancient "junk" bin (remember those?) at CICF this Spring made my girlfriend's day when I told her how well it fit into the collection and how awesome it was that she was the one to find it and negotiate a good price on it. Eventually I would like to have a collection as nice as this one, but I'm really happy with my newly expanded ancient collection and working on 12 Caesars specifically. Wish I would have started years ago.

Aethelred

Welcome to ancient coin collecting nicholas, it is a wonderful area of the hobby!

NiceCurrency

this thread inspired me to start a 12 caesars set as well

so far I have a Nero and an Augustus that I really like:

bronzemat

<< <i>this thread inspired me to start a 12 caesars set as well

so far I have a Nero and an Augustus that I really like:


>>



Nice Pieces!

lordmarcovan

@nicholasz219-

<< <i>I really like this collection and this thread Lord Marcovan. You inspired me to start my own 12 Caesars set. I am going along quite well for only a few months, admittedly with lower grade pieces. I can say that finding a lower grade Augustus in a dealer ancient "junk" bin (remember those?) at CICF this Spring made my girlfriend's day when I told her how well it fit into the collection and how awesome it was that she was the one to find it and negotiate a good price on it. Eventually I would like to have a collection as nice as this one, but I'm really happy with my newly expanded ancient collection and working on 12 Caesars specifically. Wish I would have started years ago. >>

I wish I had more time with ancient dealers' pick bins. Ironically, the last time I went to a show and had the opportunity to paw through one, it was literally a week before I began collecting Roman coins. I haven't been to a show since, so just about all of my ancient coin shopping has been done online, mostly via VCoins. Lucky you, for having those opportunities, AND an eagle-eyed girlfriend!

@NiceCurrency-

I really like both of those, particularly your Augustus. Great obverse portrait there, and a neat reverse design.

At first glance, that deep banker's punch seemed too bad. But then, on the other hand, it adds to the coin's "aura". And at a second glance, it sort of looked liked a heart to me, which is neat. (As you can see from my Julius Caesar, I've got some ancient bankers' marks myself.)

Great coins, both.

NiceCurrency

I think those type of things are great, they add character

here's some info on the back design of the augustus:

reverse IMP - CAESAR, facing head of Octavian on ithyphallic boundary stone of Jupiter Terminus, winged thunderbolt below


Reverse refers to Octavian's reestablishment of boundaries in the east after the battle of Actium and review of the client kingdoms established by Mark Antony (in particular return of Roman territory from Cleopatra and her children)

lordmarcovan

I thought that was an Octavian (i.e., pre-Augustus) design.

That's a ton of history there, huh.

As you all can see, mine too is a relatively low grade "budget" collection. I had a self-imposed ceiling of $500/coin, with most of them coming in under $200. The Julius Caesar barely made it in under the $500 ceiling, including slab fees. I wanted a "lifetime" portrait issue and this one was struck just prior to his Ides of March assassination. You'd have to be pretty lucky to get an Otho like mine for under $500, and truth be told, I had to stretch a little bit above that for this one.

I have plenty of room left for upgrading, of course. I have my eye on another Vitellius. The dealer I got mine from agreed to take it back since NGC said it was an "ancient forgery", though most of the experts on the FORVM ancient coins site who looked at it disagree with NGC's assessment and don't have a whole lot of respect for their opinion. I'm OK with it being a fourree but have my eye on an upgrade anyway. So that might be the first upgrade candidate. I also have my eye on an Augustus upgrade, but any upgrading on this set is likely to be on hold until after my fall detecting trip to England.

NiceCurrency

lordm are there any sellers you recommend for ancient roman coins?

I picked up the Augustus from the FORVM storefront, the Nero from here, I also have a Constantine I and a Crispus I bought off of ebay from a guy that was selling his collection, I've heard of vcoins but it seems like ebay where anyone is allowed to sell and you could come across fakes, I could be mistaken of course

I haven't bought from them yet, but civitasgalleries.com was recommended to me

STLNATS

VCoins is a clearinghouse of reliable dealers (some of these also have links to their own web sites that you can follow) and is updated daily with new merch. Prices vary somewhat from dealer to dealer of course, but I'm usually confident that I'm getting what was described. Forum Ancient coins is also first rate and the discussion forum that they sponsor is very informative and worthwhile. Interesting discussions by a number of very knowledgable collectors/dealers. Also has a fakes forum that's unfortunately growing but can help keep you out of trouble. Online galleries of some particiants collections and several of the dealers and Forum have basic and specialized books for sale in addition to online resources. Gotta buy and study the references...

Ebay is pretty much caveat emptor in most areas but especially ancients. 1000s of coins and you can get good deals if you know what you're doing/have some experience, but it can be a real mine field for folks who haven't done their homework. Lots and lots of fakes and frankly in some areas (eg the bactria and the indo greek) I pretty much figure most of the offerings are fakes unless I know the dealer or can prove otherwise to my satisfaction. And you owe it to yourself to do some basic research/education before diving in to that snake pit.

I like your Nero. I think roman colonials offer an interesting alternative to "ordinary" roman coins and in some cases you can get some big coins in nice condition with impressive portraits (and nifty reverses) that are more affordable than comparable roman denarii. Antioch in Syria, a number of mints in the balkans and alexandria are all good examples. Several emperors in my "one per emperor set" are covered with nifty colonials.

edited to add, Civitas is fine and I think is on VCoins as well.

lordmarcovan

I'll second what STLNATS just said. If I am looking for a particular emperor or type, I do a search on VCoins and cross-reference the offerings from all the different dealers.

Steve McBride of Incitatus Coins is one I've bought from a lot in the past. There are dozens of other reputable dealers there, though. And sometimes you can find the same offerings from the same dealers over on Numismall for a little less.

Bargainbinancients.com is also fun to browse around on.

WillieBoyd2

Margaret Mitchell must have been familiar with Roman coins.

From Gone With the Wind by Margaret Mitchell, published in 1936.

(About Rhett Butler when he is driving the coach through burning Atlanta)
"In the unholy crimson glow that bathed them, his dark profile stood out as clearly as the head on an ancient coin,
beautiful, cruel and decadent".

(About Rhett Butler, just before he leaves her)
"Drink and dissipation had done their work on the coin-clean profile and now it was no longer the head of a
young pagan prince on new-minted gold but a decadent, tired Caesar on copper debased by long usage".

lordmarcovan

It's been decades since I read Gone With The Wind. If my memory doesn't fail me, I think she mentions the O'Hara family vacationing on St. Simons Island, GA (maybe even on page 1?). Which is of course where I work, in a resort. So even 150 years ago the Atlanta folk came here on vacation.

All cinematic immortality and modern political correctness aside, I do remember that book being a great read and Margaret Mitchell being deserving of her immortality.

WillieBoyd2

The closest emperors that I can find (of the twelve) that match the Mitchell descriptions are
Caligula "beautiful, cruel and decadent", and Tiberius "decadent, tired Caesar".

nicholasz219

LordM:

Yes, I am lucky to have an eagle eyed girlfriend, especially one who is attractive and interested in all of this hooey. Even though I might end up paying more for taking her to the shows because some dealers may be jealous and stick it to me.

I have added many coins recently, mostly copper but I did find a nice and only Republican coin for my collection, an anonymous issue but very sharp with a nice depiction of a quadriga.

I agree with the general assessment of the thread's posters that there is a lot of junk, a lot of overpriced junk/counterfeits, and approximately 1.3 billion AE of any of the Constantine family on ebay at any given time. I have found a few sellers on the Bay that I do like and even though they are from overseas, they are generous in their combined shipping and pretty fair about keeping an invoice open while I wait for more of their auctions to end. This makes it worthwhile for me to purchase lower end coins that may even be duplicates upon my inspection, but if I am getting them for under $5, who cares? I figure eventually once I sort everything out, I am paying a dollar or two for an ancient copper with bulk shipping at $6-8 for six coins or more altogether that I can keep what I want and send extras to the fellow teaching the coin class for kids on here. Everybody wins and coins that might just get lost in the shuffle have some purpose.

No one mentioned Wildwinds to Currency and it should be brought up. It's a great resource and even though it can be frustrating with coins of Constantine, for example, because there are a million As that look almost identical when worn, it is very helpful to have nice pictures to get a solid identification on a coin.

Aethelred

I am happy to report that the following coins from the OP are now mine:

Augustus
Nero
Galba
Vespasian
Titus

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I am happy to report that the following coins from the OP are now mine:

Augustus
Nero
Galba
Vespasian
Titus >>



Yep, that's right, folks. I've broken up this collection.

Michael now has the five he mentioned.

Normally having someone break the back of my recently-completed, hard-won primary collection would have have occasioned much gnashing of teeth and the hot tears of seller's remorse. But I got some sorely-needed cash for my upcoming England dig trip.

AND, I also acquired Aethelred's signature coin, which I have admired for 19 years. That acquisition took away my seller's remorse.

So it's not so much a dissolution of this set as it is a reorganization. I can now say I completed the Twelve Caesars, and I am keeping some of the coins, to roll into my simplified, eclectic "Box of 20" set, thereby reducing the size of my collection but improving the quality (or at least value) of my Box of 20. Naturally his Aethelred II penny will go into the Box of 20 as well.

I am happy with the trade and it appears we got ourselves a win-win situation.

Here is the current disposition of the set in the OP:

#00- Box- don't need it anymore- anybody want to go for a slabbed Twelve Caesars set and use it?
#01- Julius Caesar- keeping it-rolled into my Box of 20
#02- Augustus- swapped to Aethelred (that makes twice I've sold the thing- 'twas low grade but I always liked it because Otho's grandfather issued it)
#03- Tiberius- keeping it-rolled into my Box of 20
#04- Caligula- keeping it-rolled into my Box of 20
#05- Claudius- keeping it-rolled into my Box of 20
#06- Nero- swapped to Aethelred (the famous "Space Shuttle" dupondius!)
#07- Galba- swapped to Aethelred
#08- Otho- keeping it- rolled into my Box of 20 (this was my most valuable coin until I got his Aethelred penny)
#09- Vitellius- probably going back to its last owner in Switzerland for a store credit
#10- Vespasian- swapped to Aethelred (he had wanted my Judaea Capta for a while, since it fits his biblical theme)
#11- Titus- swapped to Aethelred (for a huge bag of cheap "junk"- haha)
#12- Domitian- keepiing it- rolled into my Box of 20

SmEagle1795

Sad to see them broken up, but a worthy trade!