China tells U.S. "good old days" of borrowing are over

goingbroke

NEW YORK/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China bluntly criticized the United States on Saturday one day after the superpower's credit rating was downgraded, saying the "good old days" of borrowing were over.

China condemned the United States for its "debt addiction" and "short sighted" political wrangling

morgansforever

No more Happy Days, that's the way I interpret it.

piecesofme

What is it with these kind of threadson this Forum? LOL Because it might mention the word(s) Gold, Silver or precious metals one time, that makes them relevant to this Forum? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what this Forum is for?

goingbroke

<< <i>NEW YORK/SHANGHAI (Reuters) - China bluntly criticized the United States on Saturday one day after the superpower's credit rating was downgraded, saying the "good old days" of borrowing were over.

China condemned the United States for its "debt addiction" and "short sighted" political wrangling >>

GOLD

stevek

They are of course right...and it is a clever game of reverse psychology as I see it...them sounding like the Tea Party on this subject, whereby they know most Americans don't like the Communists telling us what to do, therefore they think that the Americans could be more inclined to keep the current administration in office come November 2012.

The Chinese government and other governments unfriendly to us have to absolutely love what's going on with the incompetence in the current US administration...and for sure the Communists don't like the Tea Party.

Yes, the Chinese Communists play the art of psychological warfare very well, and it is all spelled out how to do it in "Sun Tzu" which I have read.

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>They are of course right...and it is a clever game of reverse psychology as I see it...them sounding like the Tea Party on this subject, whereby they know most Americans don't like the Communists telling us what to do, therefore they think that the Americans could be more inclined to keep the current administration in office come November 2012.

The Chinese government and other governments unfriendly to us have to absolutely love what's going on with the incompetence in the current US administration...and for sure the Communists don't like the Tea Party.

Yes, the Chinese Communists play the art of psychological warfare very well, and it is all spelled out how to do it in "Sun Tzu" which I have read. >>



Absolutely true.

The Chinese have no other wish than to see the US fail as a country.

It's often been said that the third world war would be between the US and the Chinese but it would be one not fought on the battlefield, but rather, a Financial World War.

Unfortunately, if present trends continue, I know who I would put my money on (pardon the pun).

pf70collector

Let them sell their cheap goods somewhere else. Build up our manufacturing base again and produce again at home like Germany. I think it will eventually come to this. We have to go through some real pain like Brazil did 10 years ago. Look at them now.

renman95

<< <i>Let them sell their cheap goods somewhere else. Build up our manufacturing base again and produce again at home like Germany. I think it will eventually come to this. We have to go through some real pain like Brazil did 10 years ago. Look at them now. >>



Tru dat comrade! You can't go wrong when you're self sufficient too. So could the US with all of its natural gas. But that's a whole other ball-of-worms.

mrearlygold

Being spoken to that way by people who after 6,000 years have learned how to make cheap underwear for the world ONLY because the US has shoved the same ideology that crushed that race of people down the throats of American business in addition to blowing TRILLIONS of dollars playing bad as s around the world sticking guns in peoples faces is STILL not enough to humble these as sholes ( like the ones who support this ) into CHANGING AWAY from these failed ideas and immoral wasteful actions. We have a ways yet to travel.

Bear

Place a surtax on Chinese goods until the balance of payments is ZERO.

The same for all the other Countries of the world. ZERO sum game. Make

it more appropriate for companies to bring their factories back to the Good Old U.S.A.

As Americans go back to work everything else will begin to work and the value of

collectible coins will increase. This is to be a war of cyber space and mercantile attacks.

mrearlygold

Yeah there ya go, tax is a solution . Talk about pathetic . That's exactly the piss poor way ot thinking that's destroying this place.

Glad I'm in the business I'm in.

Baley

The good old days are always over, we always live in "the bad new days" this has been true since the dawn of civilization

Only in hindsight do we recognize that they were the good old days.
Rare is the person who can see the good in the current days, the magnificent opportunities that a nice "manufactured crisis" can bring.

Bear

If the Chinese no buy our bonds, what is wrong about we tax their products.

A zero balance of payments is about FAIR TRADE. I see no reason why we should

continue to subsidize the Chinese military expansion. That would be to follow the same

path as selling the pre war Japanese empire, our scrap steel so that they could build ships

and planes and bombs. Why must this Nation always be stupid about fair when we can clearly

see that such a mind set always leads eventually to war and destruction. We should always look

out for our Nation and our People first and foremost. If we are determined to become a

modest third world country, then I guess that the path we are on of great profit for the few at the

expense of the many will work out just fine.

BigE

The Chinese probably lost a "boatload" with the long term debt downgrade, are probably got no warning, since the US government supposedly didnt, lol. They do laugh about how they make poor quality goods that fill our landfills. I love to buy US made goods, but they have become almost unavailable.

An import duty would be the quickest way to have quality US goods produced here again, and I am sure other countries would rather have them also. It would also be the quickest way to start the "financial war" spoke of above.

Better stack some more gold, might be the only currency left---------BigE

roadrunner

<< <i>The Chinese probably lost a "boatload" with the long term debt downgrade, are probably got no warning, since the US government supposedly didnt, lol. They do laugh about how they make poor quality goods that fill our landfills. I love to buy US made goods, but they have become almost unavailable.

An import duty would be the quickest way to have quality US goods produced here again, and I am sure other countries would rather have them also. It would also be the quickest way to start the "financial war" spoke of above.

Better stack some more gold, might be the only currency left---------BigE >>




No warning? This has been talked about over the last couple of years. If I knew it was going to happen eventually you can bet the Chinese knew it was coming as they've been out there buying up/investing in foreign energy, agri, and mineral companies for the past few years. Now taking a foothold into Africa as well. The US Dollar falling 40% vs. other world currencies over the past 10 yrs is one indicator of how good our credit rating has been. A 40% drop usually doesn't imply AAA. Still, Cohodk often says where will everyone pile up their money if the world's economies tank? Euro? Pound? DMark? Cando? Aussie? Yuan? Yen? Not too many good options here. The Swiss Franc certainly can't handle it all.

roadrunner

mrearlygold

<< <i>If the Chinese no buy our bonds, what is wrong about we tax their products.

A zero balance of payments is about FAIR TRADE. I see no reason why we should

continue to subsidize the Chinese military expansion. That would be to follow the same

path as selling the pre war Japanese empire, our scrap steel so that they could build ships

and planes and bombs. Why must this Nation always be stupid about fair when we can clearly

see that such a mind set always leads eventually to war and destruction. We should always look

out for our Nation and our People first and foremost. If we are determined to become a

modest third world country, then I guess that the path we are on of great profit for the few at the

expense of the many will work out just fine. >>




There's no conversing with you and I'm sorry I responded. People like you have the answers right in front of you but you can't see the tip of your nose. Every solution your type of person has involves some type of "equalization" forced down our throats from government. Lord knows you don't have the power or muscle to steal so you deploy government to do it for you RATHER than GO BACK to what made this place great in the first place and I'm sure you won't find taxes and regulations as part of that formula. But whatever, resume your "ideas" to continue with your giant intrusive and mean governement and then wonder why most people don't have a pot to piss in or window to throw it out of and remember, no matter how evil an idea your types of people deploy, there will be those of us who will overcome it no matter what.

Kiss the middle class goodbye in the meantime.

Baley

what this country needs is a good frontier. How about Alaska (again).
lots of natural resources.
getting warmer

let's move some of those blistering Texans to Alaska and they can do lots of work there instead.

BigE

<< <i>

<< <i>The Chinese probably lost a "boatload" with the long term debt downgrade, are probably got no warning, since the US government supposedly didnt, lol. They do laugh about how they make poor quality goods that fill our landfills. I love to buy US made goods, but they have become almost unavailable.

An import duty would be the quickest way to have quality US goods produced here again, and I am sure other countries would rather have them also. It would also be the quickest way to start the "financial war" spoke of above.

Better stack some more gold, might be the only currency left---------BigE >>




No warning? This has been talked about over the last couple of years. If I knew it was going to happen eventually you can bet the Chinese knew it was coming as they've been out there buying up/investing in energy, agri, and mineral companies for the past few years. Now taking a foothold into Africa as well. The US Dollar falling 40% vs. other world currencies over the past 10 yrs is one indicator of how good our credit rating has been. A 40% drop usually doesn't imply AAA. Still, Cohodk often says where will everyone pile up their money if the world's economies tank? Euro? Pound? DMark? Cando? Aussie? Yuan? Yen? Not too many good options here. The Swiss Franc certainly can't handle it all.

roadrunner >>




Well then, the Chinese shoulnd't be acting like they are upset ,and neither should we------------BigE

vann

<< <i>


Well then, the Chinese shoulnd't be acting like they are upset ,and neither should we------------BigE >>


The Chinese have been manipulating their currency for decades by puchasing our treasuries in order to keep the yuan down. Since the US is their largest importer, If they stopped sending us goods in exchange for our debt, their local currency would appreciate and cause their exports to increase in price dramatically.

Baley

US exporters are (or should be) quietly thrilled with a weaker Dollar. Remeber when the "trade imbalance" was the "crisis du jour"?

Justacommeman

<< <i>what this country needs is a good frontier. How about Alaska (again).
lots of natural resources.
getting warmer

let's move some of those blistering Texans to Alaska and they can do lots of work there instead. >>



Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, Upper Michigan (Great Lakes) all make sense. California, Illinois, Nevada, Florida. Ohio could all be on a continued downward spiral. Baley, you are on to something. MJ

DNADave

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roadrunner

Well then, the Chinese shoulnd't be acting like they are upset ,and neither should we------------BigE

Both sides have to put on a good show for the world as well as their own peeps. What the govts say in public is never the whole story, and usually not even the right story.

roadrunner

BigE

If the markets tank, it will be interesting to see if people still fly to the "safety" of the dollar or treasuries-----------BigE

BigE

I also heard one bank in New York was CHARGING people to put money in!-----------BigE

vann

<< <i>US exporters are (or should be) quietly thrilled with a weaker Dollar. Remeber when the "trade imbalance" was the "crisis du jour"? >>




Exactly, Hopefully that would also be an incentive for companies to keep production (and jobs) here and would also reduce the trade deficit.

cladking

From thwe article;

"President Barack Obama urged lawmakers to set aside partisan politics, saying they must work to put the nation's fiscal house in order and stimulate the stagnant economy. He called on Congress to give tax relief to the middle class, extend jobless benefits and pass long-delayed trade pacts."

Usually it's republicans ask for tax cuts and democrats asking for more spending.

Now we have a leader who wants both.

It's a pretty sorry state of affairs when we are justifiably lectured about financial
common sense by communists.

Vote no confidence.

coinkat

No confidence seems appropriate

Bear

Mrearlygold, I am a very nice bear to talk to. In fact, I did not realize that

we were having an argument. I thought that we were merely exchanging

views. At one time I was even in favor of free trade. I should have listened

to Ross Perro when he mentioned the giant sucking sound as jobs and

factories were sucked right out of the Country. I am not necessarily in favor of

taxes to spend on nonsense, but I am in favor of taxes used to pay down debt

and for tax relief for companies for bringing jobs and factories back to the US of A.

Taxes and relief from taxes are merely tools to envoke actions good for the Nation

and to make costly actions that are not good for the Country. There is nothing basically

wrong with taxes if used properly and in the right places. When Americans can

not find American made products to buy, then something is definitely wrong with the system.


A case in point, a number of years ago when we still had battle ships at sea, one of the big

16 inch guns exploded. We had no factories in the USA that could forge a replacement for the

big gun we had.................now wait for it................to order the gun forged in............CHINA.

Now many of the sub parts of our military's electronic gear is made over seas. In case of a really

big war, who do you think we will have to ask to forge the turrets for our Abrams Tanks.



A world power, can not rely on foreign means of production if we are to secure our Nations security.

Cheap foreign made goods mean that good American jobs have gone bye bye. Now, who will have

the money to buy goods and services. Low taxes means nothing to the 25 million people who are out

of work and have no income.



Now if we are to suscribe to a policy of taxing nothing and spending nothing except on defense, how are we

to send financial support to say, Texas, Oklahoma or Florida, when natural disasters wreck large portions of those states.

I suppose, we could have Federal Employees, assuming any are left, to pick up empty cans and bottles on their way to

work and turn them in for the deposit to fund the Government. All Governments are uneconomical beasts and yet, in most

ways, they seem to function. If tax rates under President Reagan were fair, why wouldn't the same rates be fair now. If the

tax rates under President Clinton seemed fair then, why wouldn't the same tax rates be fair now.


No one is saying anyone is right or wrong here, it is just a dialog to open ones mind to other thoughts and opinions.

stevek

Well...now It's not only England and other countries which have had nutty kings in their history.

vann

And to think they called Ross Perot a nut job back then. If we would have listened, there would still be a productive capacity left in this country to give people jobs, support the economy and bring it out of recession. Instead we have a vicious cycle of relying on foreigners to buy our debt in exchange for cheap crap made overseas, which does nothing to put Americans to work, just enrich the 1% at the top that profit from 50 cent an hour labor, but it is directly responsible for the current decline in standard of living in the US at the expense of an ever growing trade deficit adding to an unsustainable debt situation.

Ross Perot 1992 Debate

jmski52

Usually it's republicans ask for tax cuts and democrats asking for more spending.

Now we have a leader who wants both.

I beg to differ.

Tax cuts for the middle class is a very nebulous concept with this current administration. When they want to gin up class warfare, middle class is anyone making $250,000 and under, except for unions (and anyone else who made campaign contributions last time around) who are exempt from the new health care requirements.

When they want to whack the middle class over their heads with massive tax increases, it's letting the tax cuts of 2001 expire, enacting welfare healthcare for 30,000,000 new non-payers, and adding as many layers of new regulations to the epa to jack up the cost of energy as much as possible.

$250,000 is the headline. The middle class is the primary target, without a doubt. Don't kid yourself.

roadrunner

And to think they called Ross Perot a nut job back then. If we would have listened, there would still be a productive capacity left in this country to give people jobs, support the economy and bring it out of recession. Instead we have a vicious cycle of relying on foreigners to buy our debt in exchange for cheap crap made overseas, which does nothing to put Americans to work, just enrich the 1% at the top that profit from 50 cent an hour labor, but it is directly responsible for the current decline in standard of living in the US at the expense of an ever growing trade deficit adding to an unsustainable debt situation.

Guess I've voted for all the "nut" jobs over the past 20 yrs, Ross Perot and Ron Paul included. Even the sleeping Admiral didn't bother me. Must have a soft spot for the RP's....especially those who understand gold's advantages. But I didn't vote for RP in this last election since I figured my vote was better cast between the 2 primary candidates as so much more was at stake this time.

roadrunner

Bear

As time goes on, Ross Perro and Ron Paul do not look all that crazy.

They told the truth as they saw it and what they saw, has come to pass.

stevek

<< <i>Tax cuts for the middle class is a very nebulous concept with this current administration. When they want to gin up class warfare, middle class is anyone making $250,000 and under, except for unions (and anyone else who made campaign contributions last time around) who are exempt from the new health care requirements.

When they want to whack the middle class over their heads with massive tax increases, it's letting the tax cuts of 2001 expire, enacting welfare healthcare for 30,000,000 new non-payers, and adding as many layers of new regulations to the epa to jack up the cost of energy as much as possible.

$250,000 is the headline. The middle class is the primary target, without a doubt. Don't kid yourself. >>



You're absolutely right...the middle class is the target for them because as Willie Sutton used to say, "That's where the money is"...and this administration is doing to the middle class what Willie Sutton used to do to banks.

Justacommeman

<< <i>As time goes on, Ross Perro and Ron Paul do not look all that crazy.

They told the truth as they saw it and what they saw, has come to pass. >>



Ron Paul has always seemed like the the most sane man in any roon I've seen him in. MJ

cohodk

<< <i>The Chinese probably lost a "boatload" with the long term debt downgrade, are probably got no warning, since the US government supposedly didnt, lol. They do laugh about how they make poor quality goods that fill our landfills. I love to buy US made goods, but they have become almost unavailable.

An import duty would be the quickest way to have quality US goods produced here again, and I am sure other countries would rather have them also. It would also be the quickest way to start the "financial war" spoke of above.

Better stack some more gold, might be the only currency left---------BigE >>




Lost a boatload? Yeah, just like Bill Gross. The 30yr US Treasury is UP 13% since January. Gold is up about 16%. Not bad performance for an asset that supposedly was a worthless POS. Bond prices actually look like they are HIGHER--interest rates LOWER--tonight.

Who cares what China says? You know what their #1 import is from the USA--soybeans. We dont need their junk, but they need our food.

The best way to get quality goods produced in this country would be to raise the cost of wages in other countries and lower wages here. And that is precisely what is happening now.

cohodk

<< <i>No confidence seems appropriate >>




If you specify no confidence in US Govt, then I'll agree. If you mean no confidence in the American people, then I believe the world is in for a rude awakening.