Having a "good eye" or lots of money isn't everything - often, it's more important to get
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
Please discuss and/or agree or disagree and/or show some examples of that concept. Thanks.
0
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
Comments
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
however,
when it comes to having a satisfying collection and a hobby that is fulfilling (having objectives, the pursuit of which bring happiness),
having a good eye AND having lots of money goes a long, long way in facilitating one's "coin nirvana".
My dream would be to have several full time numismatists on my payroll who could locate and negotiate the purchase of the finest coins (with my oversigt, of course) and about 10 Billion dollars to spend.
No, make that 20.
The right coin isn't necessarily the prettiest or the highest grade either. Nor, is it the one that I could resell for the most profit. Instead, it's the coin that I personally like the best for MY collection.
That, and a dealer that works with you.
Steve
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
Knowing the right people helps as well. Otherwise imagine how difficult it would be to put together a top registry set for a commonly collected series given that many top pop coins are bought/sold via private sale. Having millions of dollars won't help if the pieces you need never come up for auction. Knowing a number of well connected dealers may be the only way to acquire these.
Thanks
If a collector aims to form a collection of eye-appealing coins, he/she better acquire the coin-evaluation skills associated with having a 'good eye'. This usually requires a significant time investment, and tutoring by someone who is willing to serve as a mentor--I doubt that 1 in 10 coin collectors take the time to do this, however.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>AU58 >>
But...the really nice AU58 (technical grade) coins are commonly in slabs with market grades like MS63 or MS64.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>Adrian, I often here in your own words your great numismatic capabilities but i truly don't know your numismatical credentials. When i purchased coins from Anaconda I only dealt with Brandon and what he piked out or so I was told. Can you list your numismatic history/ability/credentials etc so I finally know your story.
thanks >>
Dear Mr. Neuman:
First of all it should be "hear" not "here", there, up above, next to "in" and "often", and "picked" not "piked", down below "here", next to "out" and "he". I knew you would want to know that.
Secondly, I'm not going to sideline Mark's thread by answering your question. If you are serious about your question, PM me or pose a general question in another thread and I will answer it in that other thread or in the PM.
<< <i>often, it's more important to get the most "bang for the buck" >>
I don't know if that is "often" the case, but if you're a budget collector, which most people are, then sacrifice is often necessary.
But in my experience, as I grew into the hobby, and made my own buying mistakes early on, I really came into noticing that quality really is the most important aspect - several others have already mentioned that. And quality goes along with "having a good eye" more so than cost/"lots of money".
Whether it is a set of EF/AU Morgans, or MS-66/67/68 Morgans, collect what you can afford and enjoy without getting too greedy and overstepping your reasonable and livable means.
Also, when I hear "get the most bang for the buck", I feel that relates to selling/investing as well. I think every collector is looking for a deal, but often times prices are high and tight enough that reselling for a profit isn't always viable. Dealers need to maximize profits while collectors need to minimze cost (99.9% of collectors at least!). The rare coin market now is super strong while the common coin market is feeble. Is the most "bang for the buck" in the rare coin market, maybe - I can certainly cite plenty of recent examples, but with 1 rare coin to 100 or 1,000 common coins, the two are more equal in terms of price increase than most would think.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>Please discuss and/or agree or disagree and/or show some examples of that concept. Thanks. >>
Dang, I was hoping YOU were gonna discuss it. That's why I opened this thread.
Srsly, tho', 'tis a good topic-starter. I suppose I shall now read what others have posted before generating my own two cents' worth of drivel.
<< <i>Mark, do you mean in the sense of what QDB calls the "Optimum Collecting Grade" - where you buy the grade just under where the price jumps significantly? >>
Hi Jim. I don't mean that.
As an example, I mean buying a coin of the same grade and price as another one, but the one you buy is noticeably superior and/or more appealing. Or paying 50% more for one that should perhaps sell for double. Or paying 80% as much for one that should sell for an equal amount. And so on.
Part of my point is that many people can recognize beauty and/or quality, but, in lots of cases, can't necessarily afford it. Others have plenty of money, but can't recognize subtle quality(differences). Most of the time, the line has to be drawn somewhere with respect to how much each of us will/can pay for a coin. And that applies, no matter how wonderful it is. So, I believe that, whether a dealer or collector, most anyone with limited funds strives to get the most bang for the buck, even if not consciously.
Eye is everything. (sounds someting a cat would say)
<< <i>mark,
great post, imho practically every coin that I have decided to buy was bought with your concept in mind. >>
Yup, Realone's collection of pedigreed rare die marriage and error Bust Dimes (among other coins) will yield him a great "bang for the buck" in the future.
In aerodynamics, we do the same thing. The goal is to make an airplane have lots of lift and very little drag. At one specific point for a given configuration, you have the highest ratio of lift to drag, making it the ideal design point. Moving in any direction from that point gives you a net negative, even if the single value for lift or drag (but not both) becomes more favorable.
Take this scenario. White widget coin has the following market values for typical properly graded examples: MS65 $600; MS66 $3,500. All of the top registry players own a 66. Dealer shows coin junkie an eye popping frosty, cameo-like, lusterous 65 that has a grade limiting mark or two that technically keeps it out of a 66 holder. Dealer want $1,000 for it and $3,500 for a 66. The 65 has more pizzazz than the 66. Collector is not interested in owning a run of the mill white widget 65 of this mundane date and loves the flashy $1,000 coin but knows that if he buys it he can kiss his $400 premium goodbye because all of the big players will pass on it and pony up for a 66. The registry set players at the 65 range get no extra points for the PQ coin so why should they pay more than $600 for a 65? Which coin does he buy?
CG
<< <i>beautiful just missed the next grade up MS65 at a 20% premium >>
Except that such coins seem to be offered at 40% premiums or more rather than 20% because dealer know that even if the coin has to sit in inventory a while sooner or later some coin junkie will come along who just has to have it.
CG
<< <i> the plastic keeps the cost down relative to the true value of the coin. >>
This makes a lot of sense -- and a very good way of articulating the concept.
<< <i>
<< <i>beautiful just missed the next grade up MS65 at a 20% premium >>
Except that such coins seem to be offered at 40% premiums or more rather than 20% because dealer know that even if the coin has to sit in inventory a while sooner or later some coin junkie will come along who just has to have it.
CG >>
I have in the past paid 100% or more premiums to acquire the right coin. Like I've said before - you almost always have to 'overpay' for the right coins. The secret is to know which are the right ones and which are the wrong ones.
For example - PCGS MS64 seated dollars are often around $10k while MS65's are around $50k. Isn't a beautiful, just missed it 'why is it in this holder?' MS64 worth $14k??? I can think of one of those that ended up in a 66 holder and sold for $90k+
CG
I generally like crusty, dirty circulated stuff. A Blast White Morgan that sat in the treasury vaults does nothing for me. I'm darn good at buying stuff that has a look that I like that also grades, so in that sense, I have a good track record I suppose.
Anyways.. in the interim I'm playing with a set of circ cam Morgans and thoroughly enjoying it.
<< <i>Yup, Realone's collection of pedigreed rare die marriage and error Bust Dimes (among other coins) will yield him a great "bang for the buck" in the future. >>
Seriously?
of the coins I bought from you,
but so that this is fair,
I got this on the BST for little more than the price of an average piece
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Yup, Realone's collection of pedigreed rare die marriage and error Bust Dimes (among other coins) will yield him a great "bang for the buck" in the future. >>
Seriously? >>
nah, Stone wasn't being serious, but then you knew that
I checked the horoscope this morning, along with the wiji board and magic 8 ball, and the outcome was pretty much the same "relax"
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>I'd rather have a good eye and lots of money..... >>
I agree.
Having said that, unless you have Bill Gates' type money, you should always focus in part on getting the best bang for the buck, however, that is not to say that you can't buy the very best coins.
The person who buys extremely eye appealing coins usually understands that:
1. extremely eye appealing coins can be underpriced, fairly priced and over priced, however, they are almost always, without exception, far more expensive than coins that are not extremely eye appealing;
2. extremely eye appealing coins are not fungible goods; they are almost always more illiquid at fair prices than average looking coins;
3. determining what an extremely eye appealing coin is worth (to you) is much more difficult than determing what an average coin is worth and can often include how you and the wife are getting along;
4. it is best to keep what you paid for an extremely eye appealing coin to yourself because the ignorant and fearful masses (which doesn't include anyone on this board, of course) who don't have the self confidence or wisdom to buy the very best (that they actually could afford) will usually think that you overpaid for it because their reference point for what something is worth is a price guide for average coins and they don't understand premiums, usually, for the very best, and finally;
5. the satisfaction that is derived by owning the very best eye appealing coins more than compensates for the little voice in the back of your mind that occasionally whispers....."man, I can't believe I paid X for this monster...I must have lost my mind...."
<< <i>How about this? I didn't pay any extra for the variety and I like it a lot.
Hello! You didn't even state the date!
It is not a top pop and does not compete in my registry set as an MS68* holds down that slot. So why did I buy the coin? This is one of the most attractive and well struck full step 1943-S MS66 Jeffersons I have ever seen. There is no dispute about the grade as there are some grade limiting marks, but that is the only thing holding it back from an MS67. Now some of the bigger $ collectors may laugh at this little $60 Jefferson, but the same principle applies regardless of the dollar amount. Personally, I consider this one of my best purchases of 2010.
1892-CC Morgan Dollar -- PCGS AU-58 (Semi-Prooflike)
1921 Peace Dollar - PCGS-63 CAC
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
IMO a good eye is one that can spot certain traits that i find and i believe most collectors find desirable...Such as overall eye appeal including luster, technical, strike and depending on preference toned or non-toned...
Here are two examples on either end of ones budget that i truly believe gave me a very good bang for the buck...The Merc Dime cost me a few hundred $`s and has awesome eye appeal and at a price that most collectors can afford and then the Bust Dollar which cost me a few thousand $`s which is more challenging for ones budget but being only an AU was less funds laid out then say a MS example yet still has all the desirable traits that i find attractive such as solid for the grade, great strike,very nice luster and my preference of a nicely toned example...
These are just 2 examples that work for me of the many different options and scenarios for most anyone`s budget to give them the best of both worlds eye appeal and bang for the buck...
AB
AB