coin shop owners

greatnortherncoin

what do you say to people, who wants retail prices when they sell coins

Smittys

<< <i>what do you say to people, who wants retail prices when they sell coins >>


Tell them to open a store if they want retail prices.

CaptHenway

Beat me to it.......

kranky

I think the approach that the Pawn Stars guy uses would be pretty effective. "Well, I can't pay that. I can give you $X."

CaptHenway

One of the guys on our dealer-to-dealer network had a guy in his shop on Saturday who was complaining that the dealer was ripping him off because he (the dealer) would not sell the guy old-style silver dollars for $18.
.
The dealer asked the guy how much he thought the dealer should pay him for his silver dollars. The guy said $20.

THE GUY WAS SERIOUS!!!

lunytune2

As a buisness owner myself just explain you are in buisness to make money ... not break even .. if you are selling retail you certainly can't pay them that .

CaptHenway

How about the people who come into the coin shop, ask for a discount and are quoted one, and then whine "But I can't make any money at that!!!"???

Justacommeman

<< <i>How about the people who come into the coin shop, ask for a discount and are quoted one, and then whine "But I can't make any money at that!!!"??? >>



Ya all are a pack of thieving greedy bastiages

MJ

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>How about the people who come into the coin shop, ask for a discount and are quoted one, and then whine "But I can't make any money at that!!!"??? >>



Ya all are a pack of thieving greedy bastiages

MJ >>



Yes, but yew knew that coming in..........

Bochiman

<< <i>How about the people who come into the coin shop, ask for a discount and are quoted one, and then whine "But I can't make any money at that!!!"??? >>




Sounds like they aren't the "real" consumers/collectors but are dealers/dealer-wannabes

goingbroke

My local coin store pays $12.00 for Morgans as long as they are M.S quality. He pays $8.00 each if they are not M.S. quality. He sells M.S. quality Morgan's for $34.00 each and the not so good ones he sells for $30.00 each. He makes a NICE profit!,drives a new cadillac and goes on lots of ocean cruises. All day long people line up to sell him silver and gold coins and bars. I wish I could be a dealer I wonder what the dealer club fees are?

PerryHall

<< <i>My local coin store pays $12.00 for Morgans as long as they are M.S quality. He pays $8.00 each if they are not M.S. quality. He sells M.S. quality Morgan's for $27.00 each and the not so good ones he sells for $22.00 each. He makes a NICE profit!,drives a new cadillac and goes on lots of ocean cruises. All day long people line up to sell him silver and gold coins and bars. >>



But.....but.....he has overhead he has to pay.

lunytune2

I thought utility companies gave coin dealers there services and employees are volunteers(sp) not to mention free rent

Smittys

Some people just don't understand that there's cost in running a business.
But luckily most do.

And I love the people who come in and ask what I can buy that I can sell to make money.

TwoSides2aCoin

I offer to pay retail prices, in exchange for them signging a binding contract holding them accountable for half of the bills. Sometimes I bring out a box of crayons to draw pictures for them.

piecesofme

As I sat aside on a deal at my local guys store yesterday, I became a little disgusted. He pays me top dollar because I do alot of business with him, but he doesnt to "walk-ins".
A 70 something year old man came in with $2500 FV of 90%, his lifelong accumulation of 90% he said. After haggling back & forth the guy finally settled on the dealers offer, his final offer. It was his (the dealers) way of telling the old guy that his is absolutely it. The old man settled for $11.40 x face. He actually haggled it up from $10 x face, so in that sense he did good. But knowing what 90% is going for, my stomach churned and my blood pressure rose, but I just sat there. After the deal was done, the pleasantries exchanged, the old man left. The dealer knowing i knew what just happened looked at me and said, "thats why i've been in business for 35 years, I know how to eat people alive." Wanting to keep my good standing with him, because again, he pays me top dollar, I just grinned. I asked if I could get in on $1000 of it @ $15 x face since we both knew where he was at with it all. He said, "sorry but ive got a lifestyle to keep." Once again my BP rose, I was probably beet red at this point. He then said, I'll let you have it all for $17 x face. He really thought he was giving me a deal LOL. I just shook my head.
So the point is yes, dealers have bills too and incur all the bs that goes along with owning a business. But he just made $16,500 in one deal in about 20 minutes. Of course because the old man selling insisted on getting cash, he had to have the $28,500 to lay out. Not everyone as that laying around, so i understand that. But it still bothers me how that all happened. But will I continue to do business with him? You bet your arse...because he pays me top dollar. I guess it's my benefit of builiding a 15+ year business relationship with him. Am I a hypocrite for feeling one way about how he just ripped the old man off for $16,500 and continuing to do business with him? Probably, but I understand that this is his livelihood and what he lives and breaths every day. Most people probably dont.

goingbroke

<< <i>As I sat aside on a deal at my local guys store yesterday, I became a little disgusted. He pays me top dollar because I do alot of business with him, but he doesnt to "walk-ins".
A 70 something year old man came in with $2500 FV of 90%, his lifelong accumulation of 90% he said. After haggling back & forth the guy finally settled on the dealers offer, his final offer. It was his (the dealers) way of telling the old guy that his is absolutely it. The old man settled for $11.40 x face. He actually haggled it up from $10 x face, so in that sense he did good. But knowing what 90% is going for, my stomach churned and my blood pressure rose, but I just sat there. After the deal was done, the pleasantries exchanged, the old man left. The dealer knowing i knew what just happened looked at me and said, "thats why i've been in business for 35 years, I know how to eat people alive." Wanting to keep my good standing with him, because again, he pays me top dollar, I just grinned. I asked if I could get in on $1000 of it @ $15 x face since we both knew where he was at with it all. He said, "sorry but ive got a lifestyle to keep." Once again my BP rose, I was probably beet red at this point. He then said, I'll let you have it all for $17 x face. He really thought he was giving me a deal LOL. I just shook my head.
So the point is yes, dealers have bills too and incur all the bs that goes along with owning a business. But he just made $16,500 in one deal in about 20 minutes. Of course because the old man selling insisted on getting cash, he had to have the $28,500 to lay out. Not everyone as that laying around, so i understand that. But it still bothers me how that all happened. But will I continue to do business with him? You bet your arse...because he pays me top dollar. I guess it's my benefit of builiding a 15+ year business relationship with him. Am I a hypocrite for feeling one way about how he just ripped the old man off for $16,500 and continuing to do business with him? Probably, but I understand that this is his livelihood and what he lives and breaths every day. Most people probably dont. >>

I cant believe a rich dealer would stoup so low! The more I am on this forum the more valuable information I learn!. I understand a dealer has to make a profit but what this guy did was criminal!. I think it makes other dealers look real bad!!!!!

cjmezz

I asked my local B&M yesterday what they were paying for silver nickels.........10 cents each! I said I would pass!

SeaEagleCoins

Everyone seems to have different takes on business practices and "allowable" profit margins... an especially touchy topic in the coin/bullion market...

When I was growing up, I learned from my father and grandfather that a general rule of thumb for a successful retail business was to have a minimum 33% markup... if you did well, you made a nice amount of money... if you just did an adequate business, you could "get by" ... and if you did not do very well, you needed to find another source for your merchandise or find another line of work...

Here is an episode from a show this past Sunday...

Just as I was closing down my table, a man walked up and asked how much a certain coin was... it WAS marked but I pulled it out and looked at grey sheet and quoted him ASK ($330)... he got upset and said that was way too much ... I told him that I was quoting grey sheet ask and he would likely not get a better deal on the bourse for a problem free coin... he got nasty and explained that he used "this" guide as he pulled out his own grey sheet... he wanted it for bid ($300)... I just laughed... he 'explained' that "everyone on the bourse" sold "everything" for grey sheet bid... I just said "good luck with that"... he gave me a dirty look and I lost it... I called him a few choice words I can not print here (and those who know me know that is way out of character for me) ... and told him to PLEASE never come back to my table EVER AGAIN... he was not welcome EVER...... sorry... but some folks need to wake up and get real... buy a few vowels... dig up a few clues...

I know I am one of the fairest dealers at the shows I do... that is why I am always busy buying and selling... but if I had to depend on this business to pay my way (it is PartTime only) ... I would have to change my ways or starve... 5-15% margins are simply not practical unless one is dealing in 5,6 & 7 figure deals on a regular basis...

piecesofme

I cant believe a rich dealer would stoup so low! The more I am on this forum the more valuable information I learn!. I understand a dealer has to make a profit but what this guy did was criminal!. I think it makes other dealers look real bad!!!

I'm in no way defending him, but it takes 2 to do a deal. The 70 something year old man couldve just said no, found a guy like me to broker the deal here or somewhere else like I did recently on a huge Au deal, and he wouldve gotten alot better than $11.40 x face, even after my take on the deal.

Frankcoins

<< <i>

<< <i>My local coin store pays $12.00 for Morgans as long as they are M.S quality. He pays $8.00 each if they are not M.S. quality. He sells M.S. quality Morgan's for $27.00 each and the not so good ones he sells for $22.00 each. He makes a NICE profit!,drives a new cadillac and goes on lots of ocean cruises. All day long people line up to sell him silver and gold coins and bars. >>



But.....but.....he has overhead he has to pay. >>



I paid about $200,000 a year in overhead for my store.

CaptHenway

Had a man of the cloth in around noon with a parishoner who wanted to donate her mother's silver coin collection to the church. As we usually do in such cases, I figured it very strong and gave them a number. They then said that they had two other appointments this afternoon, and would let me know tomorrow. I told them that the offer was based on $28.95 silver, which is what it was when I sat down with them, and that we reserved the right to adjust the price up or down at a later date.

I saw them out the door, sat down at my desk and saw that silver was now $27.94. That's over $700 per bag lower, and we were talking roughly 3/4 of a bag. Had they said "We'll take it" as we were sitting there I would have honored the offer. Right now I could not.

Edited to add: Silver now off $2/oz. from my offer.

Weiss

There is a principle in retail sales called "keystone", where you buy from a wholesaler at 50% of retail, then sell at full retail, or maybe a few % off of full retail.

Example: That new couch you've been looking at in the furniture store window for $800 probably cost the store $350--if that. So when they sell it at 20% off ($640), they're still making good money on it.

There are loss leaders in every retail environment. But keystone is pretty common if not the norm.

So why is it that a furniture store, a clothing store, a grocery store, or a parts supply company can buy their merchandise for 50% of retail and sell at full retail, but coin dealers have to pay 90% of greysheet to even be considered fair?

I just don't have a problem with it.

What I do have a problem with is lying to customers about value. Telling a seller that a 1914-D wheat cent is worth $.05. That's criminal. But offering 30% back of greysheet? That's an offer. Take it or leave it.

lunytune2

Maybe the dealer had way too much 90% and did not really want it .

lunytune2

oops replied to wrong thread

Justacommeman

Keystone "plus two" used to be the normal mark up in retail in the branded world. Now it's pretty much 60% as the norm branded, Unbranded it's usually 70% or higher with the exception of lost leaders, planned promotions and high volume dollar type chains. Metals is a diff3rent game as most realize.

MJ

goingbroke

<< <i>I cant believe a rich dealer would stoup so low! The more I am on this forum the more valuable information I learn!. I understand a dealer has to make a profit but what this guy did was criminal!. I think it makes other dealers look real bad!!!

I'm in no way defending him, but it takes 2 to do a deal. The 70 something year old man couldve just said no, found a guy like me to broker the deal here or somewhere else like I did recently on a huge Au deal, and he wouldve gotten alot better than $11.40 x face, even after my take on the deal. >>

Well, I guess its ok to take advantage of a old man these days I hear respect for the elderly is gone.

ranshdow

This reminds me of the BST, so often ask prices are at full farking RedBook/PCGS retail- and it gets worse if it's toned. Really, I'm all for joe collector getting a little better than B&M pricing, but *retail* prices? On a message board?

And then there's the concept of "offer expiry"- if I bid, I'm not writing you a free put, either accept or move on.

lunytune2

I am in the right thread , damn medication !

piecesofme

Well, I guess its ok to take advantage of a old man these days I hear respect for the elderly is gone.

Not sure if you read everything I said? Oh well...life on a message board, I guess I expect folks to only get what they want to out of a comment.

KUCH

Agreed...... a profit margin of 30 to 33% is fair. Went to my local B&M 8 months ago sold them 1 gold piece whereby I got taken. Yep my fault for agreeing to the price, but I've never gone back. I was a fairly good customer, spending average of $400 month.

Bear

Well the old guy sold 2500 face silver for 11.4 X = $ 28,5000. Still not too bad for the old guy.

Perhaps he just did not have the the energy to schlep it from store to store for the best price.

DeutscherGeist

It is not hard to figure out the true value of those 90% silver coins. The old man knew what the spot prices were and likely knew that he would not get spot price. Also, he wanted all cash at once. That limits to where he can sell it. Most dealers have that money, but regular folks don't. He was limited to dealers only and saved a lot of time by getting the deal done quickly. He could have earned more by selling lots on ebay, but that is a hassle and costs time. The old man sold silver at its modern peak price and he wanted to cash out right away, so he paid for the convenience. I think this was shrewd dealing by the dealer, nothing really unethical (although I could be proven wrong on this if I am presented with more facts).

It would be a rip off if there were some coin with a rare date or mint mark that the dealer clearly knew about, but did not tell the customer. The dealer proceeds to pay the customer 80% melt. But again, knowledge is an asset and no one held a gun to his head. If the customer asks if the coin had a rare date, the dealer would be unethical if he twisted the truth at that point.

As you rummage various garage sales, you see one where someone passed away and left over stuff is being sold. You see an old Roliflex camera there made in Germany (1950s). You see that everything works on it and ask for a price. They say $50 becuase it looks old and antique, but obviously don't know what it is. You counter with $20. They counter with $30. You take it. Later on, upon closer inspection, you see the camera is original, very fine, functional.....worth $500 easily. Is that ripping off the garage sale people? They buyer had knowledge and he used it. Plus there was risk involved. The buyer could not have realistically determined the condition on the spot, just a rough estimate. What if the camera did have severe flaws? It would not be worth its full potential then.



I have a problem when people lie or misrepresent something.

calleocho

a 70 something year old guy was carrying all that silver?

whats that 80 plus pounds?

greatnortherncoin

with the big hit on silver today buy prices will be lower

goingbroke

<< <i>

<< <i>I cant believe a rich dealer would stoup so low! The more I am on this forum the more valuable information I learn!. I understand a dealer has to make a profit but what this guy did was criminal!. I think it makes other dealers look real bad!!!

I'm in no way defending him, but it takes 2 to do a deal. The 70 something year old man couldve just said no, found a guy like me to broker the deal here or somewhere else like I did recently on a huge Au deal, and he wouldve gotten alot better than $11.40 x face, even after my take on the deal. >>

Well, I guess its ok to take advantage of a old man these days I hear respect for the elderly is gone. >>

It is morally wrong to let suckers keep their money.

scotty1419

My local 2 shops are offering 17 and 18x face as a buy these days...

johnny9434

and a 100 years from now itll be the same way. tell em to open thier own stores

goingbroke

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."

greatnortherncoin

100 years from now they will still want spot for 90%