For your Sunday viewing pleasure the Legend Market Report is up
Justacommeman
Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
Walker Proof Digital Album
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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Funny dreck.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
"Too many dealers hate CAC because its exposed their dirty little secrets-like selling inferior coins. And as you can see, there is a huge spread between CAC coins and NON CAC in the marketplace."
Legend sells mostly PCGS coins. Sounds like a vote of no confidence to me.
Yes... I know... I did not have to open this thread... yet being from NJ there is some kind of magnetism that just kind of makes me open these Propaganda... oops... I mean "Market Report" threads... kind of like an accident on the other side of the highway... no real reason to slow down and look but everyone does anyway... (I'd venture that all US coin forum participants open these Legend threads... even if they do not post to them)
<< <i>(I'd venture that all US coin forum participants open these Legend threads... even if they do not post to them) >>
Like a bad car wreck, I don't want to look but I can't help myself.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Rule 7) This is a PCGS forum. Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or service are not allowed. Those posts will be removed and your posting privileges may be removed as well.
Yes... I know... I did not have to open this thread... yet being from NJ there is some kind of magnetism that just kind of makes me open these Propaganda... oops... I mean "Market Report" threads... kind of like an accident on the other side of the highway... no real reason to slow down and look but everyone does anyway... (I'd venture that all US coin forum participants open these Legend threads... even if they do not post to them) >>
I wince myself from time to time and I almost didn't post this one but I do like a healthy debate. Coinsoup for the Soul
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Rule 7) This is a PCGS forum. Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or service are not allowed. Those posts will be removed and your posting privileges may be removed as well. >>
Members of the CAC fan club here claim that CAC is not a grading company so where's the problem?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
(Usual caveats - They have nice coins; I would buy from them; They know their customers; etc.)
--Jerry
So how can this be?
Look at the numbers for the McClaren collection (I hope I spelled that right
I find the value of the report to be interesting for the niche they service very well, and more importantly for what is between the lines.
And yes I like CAC and am a CAC dealer. But I guess a non-gem 1867 PCGS MS64 CAC half dime, or a PCGS VG10 50C CAC may be dreck. To me these coins are just as neat and high quality for the broader base of collectors that don't have the 6 figure bank account or wall street bonus baby type of account.
When I get back a CAC group I also don't typically price them higher. I already have any coin I purchase priced as to how I feel it stands up in the grade. The last group of 42 stickered coins resulted in one upward adjustment in price, 2 down, and 39 unchanged. The CAC sticker means just what it says, high quality for the grade. Thus it tends to sell better to collectors that understand and know about it. CAC is a good service and company, but not the whole market nor should it be.
I like the market reports but between the lines is where they are most valuable.
Opinions are always good to read.
Edit: Can a market report be classified as gossip like a posting board? Hmmmmm....
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
I don't!
<< <i>
<< <i>Rule 7) This is a PCGS forum. Posts promoting or bashing other grading companies or service are not allowed. Those posts will be removed and your posting privileges may be removed as well. >>
Members of the CAC fan club here claim that CAC is not a grading company so where's the problem? >>
Read the line again... it says ..."...grading companies or service..." ... I would think that the sticker folks qualify as a "service"... wouldn't you?
Of course... if PCGS were to start "banning" Legend reports... they would also, perhaps, stop CCU road reports, as well... and that would be a darn shame...
...and for the op... Justacommeman... I do appreciate these threads... much more entertaining and educational than many I find here...
...yet I can't help but wonder about the selective enforcement of Rule #7... it must be quite a "grey area" for PCGS in Legend's case... their banner ad does fly here... and they are major promoters of the PCGS brand... (if only they did not insist on "poking" PCGS in the proverbial side with all this CAC/coin doctor business
your shoes were hard to fill
<< <i>"Too many dealers hate CAC because its exposed their dirty little secrets-like selling inferior coins. And as you can see, there is a huge spread between CAC coins and NON CAC in the marketplace."
>>
A lot of which is driven by CAC buying and selling.
your shoes were hard to fill>>
I was hoping you were going to run with the baton
<<Of course... if PCGS were to start "banning" Legend reports... they would also, perhaps, stop CCU road reports, as well... and that would be a darn shame...
...and for the op... Justacommeman... I do appreciate these threads... much more entertaining and educational than many I find here...>>
The irony is I always link the CRO reports and Bill Shamharts insights as well but it doesn't sell papers like Lauras stuff. Johns sense of humor doesn't resonate with the masses quite like a good Laura quote
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
OUR DEFINITION OF DRECK: (for the 100th time) Are coins that are low end, UGLY, have been messed with, etc. A nice MS63 Barber coin is NOT dreck. Dreck is BAD QUALITY. This is why they need to get rid of gossipy chat forums, they create illusions and send wrong messages that simply are NOT true. Too many people want to act like they know something, when in fact, they know NOTHING (they do not buy and sell coins EVERYDAY). We are also highly suspect that people who make some ridiculous comments really are other dealers who just hate CAC.
<< <i>Legend calls for closure of coin forums:
OUR DEFINITION OF DRECK: (for the 100th time) Are coins that are low end, UGLY, have been messed with, etc. A nice MS63 Barber coin is NOT dreck. Dreck is BAD QUALITY. This is why they need to get rid of gossipy chat forums, they create illusions and send wrong messages that simply are NOT true. Too many people want to act like they know something, when in fact, they know NOTHING (they do not buy and sell coins EVERYDAY). We are also highly suspect that people who make some ridiculous comments really are other dealers who just hate CAC. >>
By her definition, a high end MS66 Barber half in a MS67 PCGS holder is dreck since it is "low end" for the grade.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So, Perry, you must be either one of the collectors who "want to act like they know something, when in fact, they know NOTHING" or one of the anonymous dealers "who just hate CAC."
<< <i>So what is the proper way to deal with a coin that you consider to be a beautiful 66 in a 67 holder? >>
Do your best to get it stickered.
Laura calls them as she sees them. Given some of the clunkers that get posted here regularly, many collections would benefit from buying coins from Legend (but sadly few will probably not realize it until it is time to sell
It's interesting that the only people who complain about Laura, her message, and Legend are the ones who do not buy coins from her, do not know her, and do not collect coins in the Legend ballpark.
The natural follow-on question to this is what percentage of any particular retailer's coins sold pre-CAC would meet standards today? It's a interesting question to say the least considering the huge number of coins sold. Just what does a retailer do when a customer brings back unstickerable coins that they formerly purchased as solid/high end and paid all the money for? Considering this affects a huge number of coins sold over the past 10 years (especially larger gold coins), it has significance.
roadrunner
I personally have not seen this in my collecting niches. Perhaps this is the case with $10 Indians and Saints, but I do not see the same in $20 CC gold, patterns, colonials, or dirty gold. Nice coins will still sell for more than nasty coins, with or without the sticker, but the sticker may add to buyer confidence.
Many dealers do not want to hear it, but we retail ONLY CAC stickerd coins. Its more than proven to us...
It's refreshing to know that an illiterate can still become a billionaire (but still doesn't have a spell or grammar checker).
I get right to her points,and try not do deal with the way she tries to get them across.
She is a bit rough around the edges
There are problems in the coin biz,and there always have been.
She is doing her best to try and clean it up.
Get rid of the coin docs is # 1,and I think the 2 major grading services are listening,and will do something about it very soon.
If it weren't for her,I may not have decided to become a full time coin dealer...Really !!
About 10 years ago,I came to het to buy ms65 peace dollars.
She told me not to buy 65's,and step up to 66 and higher. Buy the best you can afford !
She said they would be a better investment.
The 2 coins..
34s peace ms66 ..paid about 6k...sold for a new record of over 21k at auction.
22s ms66 peace..paid about 6k.. sold for a new record of over 21k at auction.
If I would have bought the 65's that I wanted,I would have lost money.
I don't always agree with her,but she has some good points to get across.
About CAC.. They need to learn what eye appeal is on certain types of coins.. Example ... I see so many ugly peace dollars with CAC stickers on them.. these are unsellable coins. Dark,with no eye appeal.
Eye appeal should mean "positive eye appeal,not negative !
CAC does do a great service helping people not to buy doctored coins,and I do agree with that.
This is fun reading,but I need to get back to my new website,and add about 100 coins today.
It is a job,but fun
www.LSRarecoins.com
Back to my favorite hobby on earth !!
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
<< <i>So what is the proper way to deal with a coin that you consider to be a beautiful 66 in a 67 holder? >>
That's an excellent question. And the answer is one that I struggle with, as a dealer who buys coins, primarily in the hopes of placing them with clients.
Here are a couple of considerations: I might think a coin is over-graded, but that doesn't mean I'm right. And even if on a technical basis I am correct, that doesn't mean it's not worth the asking price.
Right or wrong, many more times than not, I will pass on such a coin. That can be a very tough decision, and I'm not necessarily convinced that it's the right thing to do. But on the occasions when I do buy a coin which I feel is optimistically graded, I describe it as such, and point out its positive attributes, as well.
<< <i>It's interesting that the only people who complain about Laura, her message, and Legend are the ones who do not buy coins from her, do not know her, and do not collect coins in the Legend ballpark. >>
You find that interesting?? Why would someone who buys coins from Legend complain about them? Wouldn't they just buy their coins elsewhere?
I don't know Laura. I neither like her or dislike her. She is clearly very opinionated, speaks her mind and relentlessly self promotes. She should expect to be a lightning rod for comments until she acts differently. Her banter is fair play here, as she is a large player in the coin market. My guess is she craves the attention.
As far as the word "drek". It's not a numismatic term. I have never heard the word used until I ventured more into coin collecting. Maybe she and others can find a better word or just use a phrase so there is less confusion. Ay vay!
<< <i>So what is the proper way to deal with a coin that you consider to be a beautiful 66 in a 67 holder? >>
Offer what it's worth (strong 66 money) and if your offer isn't accepted, then just move on. You certainly wouldn't offer 67 money if the coin wasn't all there.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< It's interesting that the only people who complain about Laura, her message, and Legend are the ones who do not buy coins from her, do not know her, and do not collect coins in the Legend ballpark. >>
You find that interesting?? Why would someone who buys coins from Legend complain about them? Wouldn't they just buy their coins elsewhere?
Yes, as if people who enjoyed music but were not interested in the Grateful Dead, reading on a blog that the Grateful Dead played poorly last night and then complaining about it.
Not all, but most Some I kept as I disagreed with cac but. I am glad I did give most to legend and mostly took losses.......except for one big coin that I actually made 7% profit ( almost a 6 figure coin). That's a coin story for the future.
All in all I batted about 50% with what I did give to cac......after that I became a turtle for a few months and I remain on a short leash with myself as I was in shock. Still am sorta.
Over
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
As an experiment, I had a coin reholdered with a different cert number,resubmitted it through another dealer,and it stickered.
Part of the game we all play,
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
ROFL
coinsarefun, marmac, LindeDad, andree, robkool, TwoSides2aCoin, waterzooey, agentjim007
All were A++++ Transactions- Thank you !
So while they say that good coins are hard to find I think they are referring to shows and more and more auctions.
But by finding deals or having deals brought to them, aside from shows, they can still have record sales.
Which is why at this point in my life I will never become a fulltime dealer as I am a complete unknown and could not source anything.
Besides I give myself a B- in the grading department.....I think you need better than that to be a full time dealer.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Legend probably gets more than it’s share of criticism on message boards due to their blunt, opinionated style, and sloppy English. But it works for what Legend wants to do, so one can’t complain too much about success. (But geeeez….spell check is only a 2nd grader click away.)
Actually, it's more like people who likes music, reading a blog BY the Grateful Dead, which goes on and on (and on) about how great the Grateful Dead are, how the only music that's important is by the Grateful Dead, how all others who listen to and perform music sometimes (but not EVERYDAY) are just stupid because they AREN'T the Grateful Dead, how everyone's jealous of the Grateful Dead. Oh yeah, the blog by, about, and for fans the Grateful Dead is so convincing because it's also poorly written and full of typos.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>What's a weekend without the Legend Market Report and subsequent bashing, gnashing, and trashing.
Laura calls them as she sees them. Given some of the clunkers that get posted here regularly, many collections would benefit from buying coins from Legend (but sadly few will probably not realize it until it is time to sell
It's interesting that the only people who complain about Laura, her message, and Legend are the ones who do not buy coins from her, do not know her, and do not collect coins in the Legend ballpark. >>
With all due respect, not everyone has the deep pockets required to buy Legend coins. Does that make them "dreg" collectors??
<< <i>I submitted about 58 coins to cac. I gave legend some coins for their stealth team after the coins didn't pass cac standards.
Not all, but most Some I kept as I disagreed with cac but. I am glad I did give most to legend and mostly took losses.......except for one big coin that I actually made 7% profit ( almost a 6 figure coin). That's a coin story for the future.
All in all I batted about 50% with what I did give to cac......after that I became a turtle for a few months and I remain on a short leash with myself as I was in shock. Still am sorta.
Over >>
IMO, you just received extraordinarly valuable feedback on your buying habits and now need to adjust accordingly
<< <i>I wonder if as many people would read Legend's reports and talk about them, if they were free of spelling errors, more subdued and less hyped? I think not.
If you were searching for a contractor to fix your roof and one had literature with correct spelling and punctuation and the other had literature that looked like it was made by a fourth grader, which one would you contemplate using? Or a lawyer, plumber, carpet installer, tutor for your kids, etc.
<< <i>
<< <i>What's a weekend without the Legend Market Report and subsequent bashing, gnashing, and trashing.
Laura calls them as she sees them. Given some of the clunkers that get posted here regularly, many collections would benefit from buying coins from Legend (but sadly few will probably not realize it until it is time to sell
It's interesting that the only people who complain about Laura, her message, and Legend are the ones who do not buy coins from her, do not know her, and do not collect coins in the Legend ballpark. >>
With all due respect, not everyone has the deep pockets required to buy Legend coins. Does that make them "dreg" collectors?? >>
No, of course, not.
If you were searching for a contractor to fix your roof and one had literature with correct spelling and punctuation and the other had literature that looked like it was made by a fourth grader, which one would you contemplate using? Or a lawyer, plumber, carpet installer, tutor for your kids, etc.
Roofer? Yes.
Lawyer? No.
Carpet installer? Yes.
Tutor? No.
In two of the cases, the job does not require basic or advanced language competency, and in two of the examples, it absolutely does! I would be very concerned, however, if the carpet installer arrived and spoke to me in iambic pentameter.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if as many people would read Legend's reports and talk about them, if they were free of spelling errors, more subdued and less hyped? I think not.
If you were searching for a contractor to fix your roof and one had literature with correct spelling and punctuation and the other had literature that looked like it was made by a fourth grader, which one would you contemplate using? Or a lawyer, plumber, carpet installer, tutor for your kids, etc. >>
My point pertained to people reading Legend's reports and talking about them, not buying coins from them. Also, I don't consider buying coins (a product) the same as looking for a service (from a roofer, lawyer, plumber, carpet installer or tutor). But if I were looking to hire someone for one of those services, if I knew they were very good at what they did and produced excellent results, I wouldn't worry about their spelling and punctuation.
<< <i>Yes, as if people who enjoyed music but were not interested in the Grateful Dead, reading on a blog that the Grateful Dead played poorly last night and then complaining about it.
Actually, it's more like people who likes music, reading a blog BY the Grateful Dead, which goes on and on (and on) about how great the Grateful Dead are, how the only music that's important is by the Grateful Dead, how all others who listen to and perform music sometimes (but not EVERYDAY) are just stupid because they AREN'T the Grateful Dead, how everyone's jealous of the Grateful Dead. Oh yeah, the blog by, about, and for fans the Grateful Dead is so convincing because it's also poorly written and full of typos. >>
Baley,So where can we get tickets?