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It's starting to get cold now..... Guess you should watch out for FROST!!!

PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
in U.S. Coin Forum
Pickup today at a coin show. Guess the grade... on her way to PCGS...
image
image

Comments

  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    I only thought they acid treaded buffalo nickels?

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • anablepanablep Posts: 5,160 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WTH happened to that thing?

    Frost my butt, that thing got lost in a blizzard...
    Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!

    "Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."


    ~Wayne
  • holeinone1972holeinone1972 Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭
    MS UGLY!!!!!!!!!! Sorry me no likey!
    image
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PeaceMan: Was that Peace Dollar dropped in a vat of acid or electroplated? What's going on with that coin? image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    ms60 is my guess
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    Coin looks right in hand. I don't believe it to be messed with. It has that "MS-66" look to it but with the ticks and hits, I'm not sure what it'd grade. 64-65...
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    the strike is from such abraded dies, I can hardly read the words


    good luck with that 65
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    Altered surfaces.
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    badly worn die

    Coins for Sale: Both Graded and Ungraded
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/oqym2YtcS7ZAZ73D6

  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    If it comes back in a genuine holder I'll eat it... image

    Anyone know what metal tastes like? image
  • ocon4008ocon4008 Posts: 1,703
    Is that what they call the "orange peel affect"?image
  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
    Could that be a the first coin off a new pair of dies? Or is it a photography thing.
    Tom

  • BithrateBithrate Posts: 555 ✭✭
    Certainly an interesting looking coin you've got there. Let us know how the grading turns out.
  • DieClashDieClash Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Could that be a the first coin off a new pair of dies? Or is it a photography thing. >>



    That's what I was thinking. The "Frost" is quite evident, but there's definitely issues with striking up the perimeters.
    "Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    The guy I bought it from said it came for the "first dies" used in 1924. Not sure how true that is but I would think that new dies would create very crisp devices unless the pressure wasn't set correctly. In any event it does have die cracks on it and clash marks so the die isn't all that new... It has that "66" look to it.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hate to say it, but I kinda like it.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,071 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's an interesting messed up coin you have there, what happened to it?
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    Heavily eroded dies. Totally natural.

    MS65
  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588
    You guys are kidding right with the 65, 66 comments? Even discounting the strike there are lots of hits on both front and back. MS-60 if not classified as damage
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    Golfer do you collect Peace $....?
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082 ✭
    The effect is called "starburst." It occurs when dies are overused and metal flow becomes excessive. If die pressure is uneven (due to design limitations) the effect will be more pronounced in areas were striking pressure is greatest. (See the reverse of the posted coin.)

    Will be interesting to see what PCGS says about it.
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PeaceMan: The porous planchet characteristics of your Peace Dollar reminds me of the look of a cast counterfeit, if the surface texture is not caused by acid etching or some type of electrolytic process.

    By electrolytic process, I mean that perhaps someone used it as a 90% silver source for silver plating another object. It's got that type of look to me -- as Bear stated "Altered Surfaces".

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • golfer72golfer72 Posts: 3,588
    "Golfer do you collect Peace $....? " Yes, But not like that one.

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I grade that one "Oy Vay!"
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    Can anybody find an image of one with similar striking characteristics in a high grade MS PCGS holder?
    Coin Rarities Online
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My best guess is MS63. Good luck with her...
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Can anybody find an image of one with similar striking characteristics in a high grade MS PCGS holder? >>

    Here is an MS66 that Peaceman bought from me recently. It isn't quite up to the standards of the OP's coin but it shows how a coin struck on badly worn dies can still earn a respectable grade.
    Lance.

    imageimage
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,830 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is perhaps a good opportunity to continue the discussion of the limitations and challenges of a solely Numeric Coin Grading System (1-70 scale) based on Preservation State (amount of contact marks), without using descriptive terms for Original Skin, Strength of Strike, Degree of Mint Luster, and Degree of Toning to more accurately describe a coin.

    In my opinion the TPGS's typically overly focus on preservation state (contact marks) when assigning a numeric grade to a coin, often at the expense of (overlooking) other attributes (such as Original Surfaces, Mint Luster & Strike) that factor into preservation state and eye appeal.

    The subject coin and lkeigwinis pictured coin are good examples on which to have this discussion. They may have been fully struck based on the advanced wear state of the dies, but clearly the resulting coins struck from these "tired dies" are not fully struck examples for the date. One can make similar comparisons with Capped Bust Half Dollars, and Draped Bust Series coins.

    Should such a coin receive a high numeric grade while displaying poorly defined design detail? I guess that it's more of a die state grading discussion. It's an interesting topic to me. I'd also like to hear others forum members opinions on this subject.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Would the same hold true for a modern MS70 or PR70? I don't think they would ever give a modern a 70 grade if the dies were worn even if there wasn't a microscopic mark on it. Die state should have an impact on grade when the dies are that worn.

    Would you pay the same for a fully struck new die MS66 as you would for an MS66 with a die state of a coin that looks like that?

    I know I would take a coin from a new die please.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    Lance, I bought that coin from you? I dont think I did... wow is my memory bad if I did. That coin has the same die cracks as mine, wierd. That coin looks free of ticks so my guess is that it'll 65 at PCGS.

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it possible that what is percieved as hits are actually areas on the planchet where metal did not fill flow into nicks in the planchet due to the heavily worn die? If not, and they are actuall hits, I can't see that coin grading higher than 63. I would think the hit on the eagle alone knocks it out of gem status.
    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Lance, I bought that coin from you? I dont think I did... wow is my memory bad if I did. That coin has the same die cracks as mine, wierd. That coin looks free of ticks so my guess is that it'll 65 at PCGS. >>

    Sorry, Peaceman. That coin was told to PQPeace. Names just a little too similar. FWIW it was already graded by PCGS as MS66.
    Lance.
    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082 ✭
    Just an opinion, but Stuart raises the prime fallacy of “independent grading:” There are too many factors that enter into the personal appeal of a specific coin. These prevent objective measurements of even the most obvious things such as nicks and abrasion.

    While independent grading is a nice starting point, I see no justification for a coin being “worth” more in MS-66 than in MS-63 if individual factors are considered. I commented elsewhere that I’d prefer to have a truly well-struck 1921 dollar in solid AU, than some flattened out road kill slabbed as MS-66. However, collectors and dealers continue to pay for the plastic not the coin, and that opens a great opportunity for collectors to “cherry pick” top quality examples of Peace dollars, SL quarters, Seated silver and even $10 Indian eagles.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would a weak strike have an effect on the poorly defined rims seen at K2 and K7 on the obverse and reverse?
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"

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