As I Randomly Brouse Through the Recent PCGS 'Shared Orders' Submission Pages....

dragon

I am noticing an alarming number of coins getting bagged for one reason or another in virtually every submission I brouse through, and a far higher percentage than I remember seeing in past years. Lots of cleaned, tooled, altered surfaces, questionable toning, questionable authenticity, etc.

What's the deal???

1) Are so many collectors just recently submitting ungradable coins?

2) Are many of these perhaps coins that were once holdered and are now considered not gradable, and the standards of what is now a problem free coin have significantly changed?

3) Has the number of raw ungradable problem coins in the marketplace in gereral gone up dramatically?

4) Is PCGS now more carefully scrutinizing and recognizing coins as ungradable that may have slipped through the cracks in past years?

5) Are there just recently too many inexperienced collectors submitting coins they shouldn't be?

fcloud

I know I have sent some in for Genuine.

Here is a great example. This coin (as far as I can tell) is the only one graded. It is one though coin 1942-D/D Merc. I needed it for my set below, I knew it would not grade, but the genuine was worth it for me. I also have a 1943-S Trumpet Tail S in a genuine holder. The challage to find some of the varieties it been an interesting ride.

So, from my prospecive I can now send in coins that would have body bagged in the past, and now I can get them into my set. They may get replaced in the future but I think this example is a great one on why you would put a coin in a genuine holder. POP 0/0 full band and no band. The genuine coins don't get added to the pop reports.

Bochiman

6) When in any type of doubt, or monetary pressure if the grading guarantee were to be called in, then Genuine.

dragon

<< <i>6) When in any type of doubt, or monetary pressure if the grading guarantee were to be called in, then Genuine. >>






Ok, let's assume that's true, but what about the millions of PCGS coins graded and holdered in years past? Hasn't the grading guarantee horse long since left the barn and is 20 miles down the road??

TwoSides2aCoin

I need a loupe when checking "shared orders" pages.

RMLTM79

<< <i>I need a loupe when checking "shared orders" pages. >>



haha...I needed a good laugh!

SeattleSlammer

Unless you're checking nearly ALL of the submissions over a significant chunk of time, it could all just be coincidence.

CoinJunkie

A lot of the best coins are already in holders. That leaves a higher percentage of marginal ones.

CHAMELEON

<< <i>Unless you're checking nearly ALL of the submissions over a significant chunk of time, it could all just be coincidence. >>



It is no coincidence. Recently there has been an outrageous number of original, problem free coins being bagged or put in genuine holders for no apparent reasons. In my last submission I had a 1963 sealed proof set that had a beautifully toned Franklin half in it. There were no holes in the cello and it had not been tampered with. The Franklin came back as "improperly cleaned". After speaking with the person who graded it, I was told to send it back in for another look. Then it came back as AT. Sure, it is temporarily more profitable to bag a bunch of coins and get get paid again when they are sent back in, but it has gotten to the point to where I'm scared to send in anything because I only collect toned coins and I don't want to waste $100-$200 to get everything put in a bag or genuine holder when I am 100% certain they are original. I've got a whole lot of coins that I would like to get certified, but there's no way I'm going to deal with the frustration of the current grading trends. In that aspect, it is not at all profitable to bag so many coins that should not be.

I keep seeing people say it s because of CAC, but I don't understand how CAC would make a bit of difference. The TPG's claim to be the experts, so I would think that what the slab says when they grade it would be considered the final word. The TPG's don't make any money or benefit in any way from CAC putting a sticker on their slab. I don't know exactly what is going on, but it s obvious that a large percentage of collectors are getting fed up and would like to get some answers. I'm done sending coins in until something changes.

Manorcourtman

<< <i>

<< <i>Unless you're checking nearly ALL of the submissions over a significant chunk of time, it could all just be coincidence. >>



It is no coincidence. Recently there has been an outrageous number of original, problem free coins being bagged or put in genuine holders for no apparent reasons. In my last submission I had a 1963 sealed proof set that had a beautifully toned Franklin half in it. There were no holes in the cello and it had not been tampered with. The Franklin came back as "improperly cleaned". After speaking with the person who graded it, I was told to send it back in for another look. Then it came back as AT. Sure, it is temporarily more profitable to bag a bunch of coins and get get paid again when they are sent back in, but it has gotten to the point to where I'm scared to send in anything because I only collect toned coins and I don't want to waste $100-$200 to get everything put in a bag or genuine holder when I am 100% certain they are original. I've got a whole lot of coins that I would like to get certified, but there's no way I'm going to deal with the frustration of the current grading trends. In that aspect, it is not at all profitable to bag so many coins that should not be.

I keep seeing people say it s because of CAC, but I don't understand how CAC would make a bit of difference. The TPG's claim to be the experts, so I would think that what the slab says when they grade it would be considered the final word. The TPG's don't make any money or benefit in any way from CAC putting a sticker on their slab. I don't know exactly what is going on, but it s obvious that a large percentage of collectors are getting fed up and would like to get some answers. I'm done sending coins in until something changes. >>




I hear you brother. A perfect example of tightening the belt can be seen examining the Pop's for the Formative Years Lincolns. Over 5000+ graded and not a single 67. I for one have been searching and submitting Modern Lincolns since 2002. I have been through over 7500 FY Lincolns and have been VERY picky and submitted my best 14. Needless to say they came back 66. In years past the best 2-3 would have graded 8, 7 on a bad day. I am convinced at this point they have decided not to grade any of them 7. I have the most PQ 66 Lincolns on the Planet sitting in Blue boxes!! Things have changed!!! No doubt about it. Pop reports don't lie.

Steve27

"What's the deal??? "

While some people are submitting coins knowing they will be placed in "genuine" holders, the real reason for the plethora of G-holders, is PCGS has become more conservative over the last 2-3 years. I have a stack of coins which I would like to submit to PCGS, but between the increases in fees and the increased conservatism, I'm in no hurry. Thus, I have turned to buying already slabbed PCGS coins from ebay, which is usually a good bargain.

dragon

<<< In my last submission I had a 1963 sealed proof set that had a beautifully toned Franklin half in it. There were no holes in the cello and it had not been tampered with. The Franklin came back as "improperly cleaned". After speaking with the person who graded it, I was told to send it back in for another look. Then it came back as AT. >>>



Wow..........two grading fees and all that postage, I'd be kinda mad.

Greeniejr

I think part of it is that people now don't care about problems when sending in coins as long as they get into genuine holders. We have had many different submissions where we throw in a random key date that we know is ungradable to get them into holders. Also, knowing that it will get into a holder no matter what motivates people to send in coins that are shots.

DennisH

Just like there have always been coins that got bodybagged the first time around, but went into regular holders when they were broken out and resubmitted, guess what happens to some "Genuine" coins these days? A friend of mine did this recently with (I think) 12 Genuine coins that didn't look like there was anything wrong. He broke them out and resubmitted, and eight came back in problem-free holders.

dragon

I was just checking a few random submissions that were shipped in the past couple days and it's unbelievable. There were a couple bigger orders where nearly every single coin got bagged.

Bear

I told you before, you have to include a tip or a box of cookies,

in order to get a favorable rendering on your coin(s).