Shocked, Disheartened, Insulted, and I Guess I Selectively Purchase Low End 'C' and 'D' Coins
dragon
Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
.......so says a certain service that 'grades' the graders. And to think all these years I thought I knew what I was doing?
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Which TPG?
Details?
100% Positive BST transactions
<< <i>Which TPG? >>
CAC?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Toned Coins for sale @ tonedcointrader.com
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I you knew what my $20 generic Saint non-stickered rate was you would be amazed. Hand picked ones from over the years. More PCGS than NGC too. Others that have sent them in have no doubt learned the same lesson. In fact I only picked the top 50% to even send for review making the results even more striking.
One can look at a stickered coin as one that is perceived to be solid for the grade....that they are willing to buy at their bid price. The 2nd part of that statement adds a twist to it.
roadrunner
<< <i>It's why I say that on some series a CAC sticker is a must, if only to get a very high quality coin for almost no premium. >>
Where can I buy "a very high quality coin" with a CAC sticker "for almost no premium"?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>If the "supposedly" correct opinions of CAC is so important, I'd like to see them not document coin slab numbers and see what repeat submissions resulted in. It would probably be just the same as cracking out TPG coins and resubmitting. >>
Well one thing I can say from past experiences.........all I have to do is sell a few of them and I'm sure to see them several months later in a big dealers online inventory or major auction probably 1 grade higher and with a gold bean
<< <i>If the "supposedly" correct opinions of CAC is so important, I'd like to see them not document coin slab numbers and see what repeat submissions resulted in. It would probably be just the same as cracking out TPG coins and resubmitting. >>
I may be wrong here, but I'd wager that JA doesn't know that the coins he is grading are repeats until AFTER he looks at them. Unless of course he happens to remember them.
The dude may or may not send these de-stickered coins back for re-stickering when he sells them. While the dude hates the look of these green beans, he is still rather partial to other things that are green. In the meantime, he enjoys looking at his entombed coins sans stickers and will gladly re ante another few bucks to sticker them down the road. One crazy dude...............MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Dragons have feelings too
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Personally I'd prefer my Morgans to have a dragon sticker on them rather than the alternative. >>
Excellent point, CW!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
'dude
<< <i>Have any photos of the perps you can share?
'dude >>
Here's poor quality low res. scans of just a couple of the no-go's
"C" and "D" coins to me means Charlotte and Dahlonega.
What you have there are "S" and "O" coins.
All this time, I thought you were talking about C and D gold.
<< <i>Is removing one of those green stickers from a slab anything like removing a tag from a mattress? I mean, will any state or federal laws be broken? I will not admit to anything unless I find out any penalties that may be involved......Ok let's just say for the sake of arguement that I know this dude, who knows this other dude that hates the look of those stickers on his slabs. Therefore, one day he removes all the stickers from the said slabs (they just happened to be on the slabs when he bought them) This dude then asked himself, " Dude, why don't they put these weird looking stickers on the back of the slabs so they aren't so visually detracting?" While the dude is just a man of the people he likes his coins nice and aesthetics are important to him. Yes, I was just as surprised that I, I mean the dude could actually spell aesthetics correctly without spellcheck. Surely the green sticker on the obverse side couldn't possibly be for marketing reasons as everybody knows that the green sticker company was formed for the good of the collector with profit merely an afterthought if ever even discussed.
The dude may or may not send these de-stickered coins back for re-stickering when he sells them. While the dude hates the look of these green beans, he is still rather partial to other things that are green. In the meantime, he enjoys looking at his entombed coins sans stickers and will gladly re ante another few bucks to sticker them down the road. One crazy dude...............MJ >>
Most coins are slabbed with the obverse/heads up and its the side of the coin that most folks look at first; so if you want your tag noticed put it on the front, duh. In most cases a single pic suffices, but then if you put the sticker on the back, then 2 pics are a necessity. Most folks like myself likely don't care if it's on the front as long as it doesn't obscure any script.
An MS65 saint is the best example I can find. Most people consider them "so generic" that they trade for nearly full money sight unseen thanks to the strength in the gold price. But the sloppiness in grading saints due to bulk/large submissions put a lot of less than MS65 coins into 65 holders. Yet today, one can buy a CAC MS65+ saint (that was a MS65 saint back in 1989) for <$50-$100 (3-5%) over the price of real lousy looking one that might only grade 63/64 on the next time through. So do you want a gem saint that can stand on its own 2 feet in any market or "save" $50 by buying a pretender? Considering that all-there MS65 saints out number the pretenders by multiples, I'd pay the $50.
The above transition occurred from 2004-2008. In those earlier years a MS64 saint fetched 60% of the price of a 65. But by this year the ratio has climbed to as high as 88%. That's the market saying that sight-unseen 64 or 65 saints aren't all that much different. And the % growth in the pops clearly shows the change from April 2005 to July 2007:
Percentage growth in pops for each with motto MS Saint grade (1909-1932)
60 -2%
61 0%
62 4%
63 11%
64 33%
65 79% hmmmm?
66 66% hmmmm?
67 11%
So make my MS65 saint stickered and "hand selected" for blast and eye appeal at essentially no premium to low end coins. This is not an isolated occurence in gem type gold. For example the $20 libs in MS64 and 65 had growth rates of 38% and 60%...basically the same trend. Most of the smaller gold pieces had MS65 growth rates in the 20-28% range, so they toed the line better.
roadrunner
I'm sorry, but I've seen some serious dogs with CAC stickers. I've not been impressed.
<< <i>I'm sorry, but I've seen some serious dogs with CAC stickers. I've not been impressed. >>
My opinion is that a CAC sticker is more valuable on a gold coin than any other. Rarely does toning play a factor in
the value of the coin. It comes down to technical grade and whether the coin has been worked in some way. Too bad
common date mid-grade Saints generally bore me to tears.
both are attractive; I'd take either.
1879-O{Rev}: 1st coin of my "secret set"
The dude may or may not send these de-stickered coins back for re-stickering when he sells them. While the dude hates the look of these green beans, he is still rather partial to other things that are green. In the meantime, he enjoys looking at his entombed coins sans stickers and will gladly re ante another few bucks to sticker them down the road. One crazy dude...............>>
I dont think Ive ever seen the word Dude so much in one place, and at one time...
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"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
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<< <i>from the photos, it looks like all the coins so far should have stickered. >>
Not sure I agree. The 83-O DMPL Morgan looks a bit hazy. It's impossible to gauge the depth of mirrors from a photo, in any case.
I would guess that if these coins got rejected, there was a reason.
A hit, a mark, something that holds it back. Something that is not necessarily visible in these low resolution scans.
In most cases, including these, I think you really need to have a coin in your hand to know which side of a grade the coin falls on.
Attempting to judge whether an unc coin should or shouldn't sticker off an image is foolish.
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>I However, to this day I've never seen a rejected coined from the service . I hope the OP will share some pic's of coins that didn't get stickered that he/she was surprised at. That would be most educational........MJ >>
From time to time Mark Feld will list on his site coins that he states failed to meet CAC requirements.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Yeah, keep in mind those are all really poor quality scans and don't show the coins off too well at all, especially lustre.
I had thought that CAC was stickering well over 80 - 85% of all submissions, but was recently informed by TomB that their sticker rate is under 40% so I guess I shouldn't feel too insulted at being around 65% after 3 submissions, and I haven't even sent in any of the nicer stuff from the 'A' boxes yet.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i><<< So far I like 2 of the images and hate 2 of the images. >>>
Yeah, keep in mind those are all really poor quality scans and don't show the coins off too well at all, especially lustre.
I had thought that CAC was stickering well over 80 - 85% of all submissions, but was recently informed by TomB that their sticker rate is under 40% so I guess I shouldn't feel too insulted at being around 65% after 3 submissions, and I haven't even sent in any of the nicer stuff from the 'A' boxes yet. >>
Apparently some folks aren't too selective about what they submit to CAC, in the same way they aren't too choosy about what they send to the TPGs.
<< <i><<< So far I like 2 of the images and hate 2 of the images. >>>
Yeah, keep in mind those are all really poor quality scans and don't show the coins off too well at all, especially lustre.
I had thought that CAC was stickering well over 80 - 85% of all submissions, but was recently informed by TomB that their sticker rate is under 40% so I guess I shouldn't feel too insulted at being around 65% after 3 submissions, and I haven't even sent in any of the nicer stuff from the 'A' boxes yet. >>
Seems you're doing ok.