Were these two coins kept in the same drawer, or merely stored under very similar conditions?
Gobrechts99Grapevine
Posts: 143
I asked robec to photograph my "blue" 1915 67BN matte proof Lincoln and he produced some images which I decided to use instead of the previous photos because robec's new pictures were more accurate (though they ARE also more dazzling) than the pictures that I had been using. What I didn't expect was how similarly both the obverses and reverses of my 1915 and Matt Chapman's PR65BN 1912 seem to have toned in color.
Here's the old, soon-to-be-discarded image of my "blue" PR67BN:
Here's robec's "new and improved" image of that same coin:
And here's Matt's 1912 (were they stored in the same drawer???):
Here's arguably my even more beautiful other PR67BN 1915:
It's hard to choose between them. PCGS PR67BN, pop. 2/0, and here they both are, side by side:
Here's the old, soon-to-be-discarded image of my "blue" PR67BN:
Here's robec's "new and improved" image of that same coin:
And here's Matt's 1912 (were they stored in the same drawer???):
Here's arguably my even more beautiful other PR67BN 1915:
It's hard to choose between them. PCGS PR67BN, pop. 2/0, and here they both are, side by side:
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
NOT.People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
0
Comments
my ol beliefs were blue copper=ms70
then i read a book on copper patination which bore some insight explaining exposure to ammonia in a coins exposed atmosphere produces blue patina's on copper...(does ms70 contain ammonia ?)
so it could very well be both of these were stored in the same type of cabinet with a glass viewing shield which was occasionally cleaned with ammonia...thus introducing it into the coins stored atmospheric gases
bob sure has a way of capturing these tuff lil boogers doesn't he...i still say my ol 1911 was best captured by his skills
As for these two coins, I won't discount the possibility of some atmospheric contact with ammonia. Any coin in a glass case cleaned with Windex might suffer the same fate. What I can tell you about mine is that the color is just an amazing sight to behold. It really jumps out of the holder, and changes upon rotation in a subtle way that the MS70 coins never will. The coloration is deep, and there exist layers of color underneath that sparkle. The luster is just as strong on that coin as the brightest new red cent ever was.
You know of my old want for that coin, and my disapointment when I discovered that you had traded it into your posession. What I can say is that ownership of the 1912 has somewhat abated my desire for that coin... but it will never completely replace it. Your coin is so clean and so well detailed, it will always remain a dream coin for me. Congratulations again for obtaining it. I tip my hat to you.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
my post clearly included insight incase anyone wonders
what elements cause certain colors in copper patina and how quickly blue is dismissed as a ms70 job
both coins clearly are from same composition of air exposure in storage as asked in thread title
beautiful patina's there on those mattys
i'd hope no one took i was implying a ms70 job but read a good book on copper patina's and passed some info along
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>Matt, I remember our conversation almost one year ago when you were saying that you couldn't stop looking and thinking about that 1915 when it was still owned by Pete Miller. It truly is a Wondercoin. For awhile it was my favorite MPL as well, but that all changed when I saw Rich's other 1915. Imagine owning the only 2 67BN's of that date, not to mention 3 of the 4 67BN's in the whole Lincoln series with 0 higher. >>
OK,
Who is holding out on Rich? now cough up that 1910 PCGS PR67BN
<< <i>
<< <i>Matt, I remember our conversation almost one year ago when you were saying that you couldn't stop looking and thinking about that 1915 when it was still owned by Pete Miller. It truly is a Wondercoin. For awhile it was my favorite MPL as well, but that all changed when I saw Rich's other 1915. Imagine owning the only 2 67BN's of that date, not to mention 3 of the 4 67BN's in the whole Lincoln series with 0 higher. >>
OK,
Who is holding out on Rich? now cough up that 1910 PCGS PR67BN
Believe me I was looking for it in the Registry, but no one is claiming responsibility.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Though it isn't my most valuable coin, it certainly ranks among my favorites. What do you think? The image is not juiced, and it faithfully represents the appearance of the coin in hand. The photograph was taken by poorguy, and the coin was purchased from coinpictures. I am hoping for a PR65 BN designation, but I believe it will more likely get certified as PR64 BN.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>Dunno but i DO know that they should belong in MY drawer
I had them in mine for about 3 weeks. I felt like King Richard.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
what a treat to image them there robec too
<< <i>Matt, I remember our conversation almost one year ago when you were saying that you couldn't stop looking and thinking about that 1915 when it was still owned by Pete Miller. It truly is a Wondercoin. For awhile it was my favorite MPL as well, but that all changed when I saw Rich's other 1915. Imagine owning the only 2 67BN's of that date, not to mention 3 of the 4 67BN's in the whole Lincoln series with 0 higher. >>
Here are three of the four 67BN's in the whole matte proof Lincoln series, with 0 higher (photos by robec):
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
And here's a copy of the new photos from my new 1914 PR66BN:
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Matt, is the 1914 the one that crossed from NGC? If so I can see why. It has some great color with a great strike. >>
Yeah, and it's really clean and lusterous as well. Just another case of "wrongholderitis" which has since been cured.
Uuh, here's a blowup...
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
Also, after some study, I've found out that the atmospheric conditions that lead to the heavy blues on bronze are large amounts of copper hydroxide in the air. In industrial areas of the country, copper sulfate is the predominant element in the air that causes a blue-green patina; in seaside areas, copper chloride is the culprit, causing more of a green patina, and in the mountainous regions, copper carbonate predominates, leading to green-blue patinas. This information came from a study on the toning of copper roof patinas in differant parts of the country. The author states that the patinas develop in a time period of between 4-30 years. I suppose that the same patina reactions would happen to any bronze articles left out in the environment, including bronze, brass or copper statues and of course, coins. I have found from my studies that a good chemist can emulate these colors and more on almost any metal available, so it's not inconceivable that any one coin may or may not have a patina that is 100% induced by nature or that the patina is accelerated by any number of differant factors. I would be very interested in what Stewart might know about this, being both a copper collector and artist who specializes in large metal outdoor sculptures.
As a collector of nicely-toned coins, and after much research, I've clearly come to the conclusion (and acceptance) that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for most collectors (myself included) to decern how some pieces attain their patinas. So I have decided to enjoy my coins with the understanding that the beauty of my collection may be a conglomerate of many factors. Clearly, as collectors, we take a lot on faith, and the honor of the people that we deal with.
<< <i>Were these two coins kept in the same drawer, or merely stored under very similar conditions? >>
No, but I suspect they did undergo a very similar cleaning/ATing process....Mike
<< <i>No, but I suspect they did undergo a very similar cleaning/ATing process....Mike >>
Now, when you say "I'm not even going to dignify that with a response", is that in itself a response?
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
<< <i>I am sorry if the truth (as I see it) hurts. Perhaps you should learn a little more about copper and what happens to it when exposed to MS70 and/or soap, and report back what you find out. I suspect that your opinion on the topic may change. Respectfully....Mike >>
I'm not hurt by the way you see the truth. Most people with limited experience automatically assume that all blue or colorful copper is the result of an AT process. It took a lot of looking at AT junk to convince me otherwise. As far as I can tell, the whole discussion of AT is a Pandora's Box. In the end, the color just has to look right, and if you can get that through a quick AT process, then you win. Heck, there's a strong argument that all toning is AT, even when it occurs naturally. How's that for a double standard? If natural you live down the road from a sulfur mine, does that make you stunning toned collection of coins AT? Maybe. If they look like crap, I can gurantee no TPG will holder them. However, if the toning has sufficient appeal, and can be regarded as having taken place over the course of decades, not months, then generally TPGs will certify them. In the end, you have to decide which type of coins you want to collect. I prefer beautiful ones.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
<< <i>It must be an awesome feeing to know more than PCGS and NGC, just awesome.
I don't pretend to know more than PCGS or NGC. However, I do know a MS70 coin when I see one:
Notice the similarity?
To wit, just because NGC or PCGS choose to slab these coins doesn't make them any less AT. Remember, the TPGs don't make that determination either -- they only deem coins market acceptable or not, and in the case of these coins (and others) they have clearly deemed them MA. In the end, each of us must make the determination as to what is acceptable to ourselves. Just don't lie to yourself and believe these coins are NT when it is far more likely that it is not the case.
However, none of that changes what I wrote or the veracity thereof.
Respectfully...Mike
<< <i>
<< <i>I am sorry if the truth (as I see it) hurts. Perhaps you should learn a little more about copper and what happens to it when exposed to MS70 and/or soap, and report back what you find out. I suspect that your opinion on the topic may change. Respectfully....Mike >>
I'm not hurt by the way you see the truth. Most people with limited experience automatically assume that all blue or colorful copper is the result of an AT process. >>
So you're not hurt, yet you find the need to question/put down my experience. Riiiight.... Please don't try an ad hominem attack because you don't like what I'm saying. Question the message, not the messenger.
But that's OK, I kind of expected such a reaction to my comments. However, you should be aware I've been collecting copper on and off since 1978 and toned coins for five years, and in that time I expect I've looked at just as many or more toned coins than you have -- with a keen interest in the topic at hand (blue copper) -- but really that's neither here nor there.
<< <i> It took a lot of looking at AT junk to convince me otherwise. As far as I can tell, the whole discussion of AT is a Pandora's Box. In the end, the color just has to look right, and if you can get that through a quick AT process, then you win. Heck, there's a strong argument that all toning is AT, even when it occurs naturally. How's that for a double standard? If natural you live down the road from a sulfur mine, does that make you stunning toned collection of coins AT? Maybe. If they look like crap, I can gurantee no TPG will holder them. However, if the toning has sufficient appeal, and can be regarded as having taken place over the course of decades, not months, then generally TPGs will certify them. In the end, you have to decide which type of coins you want to collect. I prefer beautiful ones. >>
I agree, it is a Pandora's Box. The net-net of opening the box is that the line between AT and NT coins blur. However, that doesn't change in the least how the monochromatic blue MPLs got that way -- as a side effect of MS70 and/or soap in the majority of cases.
So, collect what you like and pay prices that you think are commensurate for the quality of the coins. Just don't post MS70ed copper and ask if the coins were stored in a drawer then get angry when someone tells you the (ugly) truth about those coins as they see it.
Respectfully...Mike
Can you always tell for certain the difference between a MS70 toner and an atmospherically-toned coin because of the blue tint? What I'm wondering is if a coin can ever tone blue under the correct environmental conditions?
<< <i>"".... I do know a MS70 coin when I see one.""
Can you always tell for certain the difference between a MS70 toner and an atmospherically-toned coin because of the blue tint? What I'm wondering is if a coin can ever tone blue under the correct environmental conditions? >>
In hand (and in my experience) it is much easier to make that determination. However, it is far from a certain game with pics. That said, the spottless and even mononchromatic blue look is very distinctive of these MS70ed coins and that is what led me to say what I did about the two coins posted by the OP.
As for your second question -- if a coin can tone monochromatically blue under the correct environmental conditions -- I've never seen a copper coin tone that color naturally. However, I have heard stories of old MPLs that were blue from the tissue paper they were stored in. Frankly, I think that's a concocted story, but that's my opinion based on the original proof sets I've seen from this time period -- I've never seen a blue MPL or IHC in those sets. Looking back over auction records, you find virtually no mention of all these blue MPLs and IHCs, yet they are suddenly coming out of the woodwork. Why do you suppose that is? Did suddenly someone find a huge cache of these coins, or is it more likely that the process described in the photos I posted above has been used?
I have shared with you my opinion on the topic, but each of us must answer those questions ourselves. Good luck in your search for the truth....Mike
<< <i>Thank you. I am a very curious person and always looking for truth. In your opinion, which I do respect, are monochromatically blue toned coins the greatest concern, or are there other colored coins (and colors) that are easily ATed as well? Clearly a guide as to what colors to watch for in particular would be helpful for all collectors of toned bronze coins. >>
From what I understand just about any color that can appear on a coin naturally can be ATed. So spotting ATed coins isn't as easy as looking for the color. That said, the MS70 blue is a very distinctive hue (electric neon blue is what I call it myself) that after you've seen it a few times it becomes almost instantly recognizable.
But don't take my word on it. Buy yourself a bottle of MS70 and a few mint state coins and experiment yourself. Be sure and post your results here -- just don't be surprised when your words are not received well by those who are buying and selling these coins.
Any idea as to what ingredients are in MS70?
Have you ever left a mint-state Lincoln in your pocket and washed it? Guess what color it comes out....
Though even if a person is truly arrogant, I tend to give them a pass if they demonstrate a high degree of compentence. And if one is humble, I tend to overlook incompetence (to a point). It is only those who are simultaneously arrogant and incompetent that really torque me.
If you are offended by this post, then re-read it until you see that I am not being critical.
Edited to ask...
So what about the Centavo?
<< <i>It must be an awesome feeing to know more than PCGS and NGC, just awesome.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>MikeInFL, in the course of several posts, you have presented a compelling case, and I am glad I didn't post a challenge earlier on. I don't believe your original post "hurt" as much as it angered, since if one overlooked your use of a qualifying word (i.e. suspect), it conveyed a distinct sense of arrogance. Again, that was only if the reader overlooked your qualifying word, (which I did at first).
Though even if a person is truly arrogant, I tend to give them a pass if they are demonstrate a high degree of compentence. And if one is humble, I tend to overlook incompetence (to a point). It is only those who are simultaneously arrogant and incompetent that really torque me.
If you are offended by this post, then re-read it until you see that I am not being critical.
Edited to ask...
So what about the Centavo? >>
Hi! I'm sorry if you took my tone as arrogant. That was not at all my intent, and in retrospect I can see how one could arrive at that conclusion.
However, I did fully intend to be blunt and straightforward in my response. I have found that sometimes you have so smack people over the head with the truth for them to hear it, and this was one of those times, IMO.
Take care...Mike
p.s. I wasn't offended by your post in the least.
* = edited to add, here's the blue-green color I'm talking about:
While the presence, in my opinion, of this color doesn't necessarily rule out AT, it does occur naturally in a monochromatic state as evidenced by the above no-brainer Randall Hoard coin and its similarly toned bretheren. You will also note the distinctive hue difference between this coin and the two posted by the OP.
<< <i>
<< <i>It must be an awesome feeing to know more than PCGS and NGC, just awesome.
C'mon Dave, You can do so much better than that. Don't you have anything to add?
Also from that thread across the street a few years ago, I distinctly recall gmarguli stating emphatically that the TPG's were made aware of MS70 and the things it can do to copper, yet they continued slabbing the coins.
As I don't have the eloquence or patience you do, I'm now bowing out of this thread, as the last time I was in one of these discussions it turned pretty ugly, and people wanted to see me get paint on my face
Lincoln set Colorless Set
<< <i><< It must be an awesome feeing to know more than PCGS and NGC, just awesome.
I don't pretend to know more than PCGS or NGC. However, I do know a MS70 coin when I see one>> >>
I'm glad to have found someone who not only has this ability but also is willing share his expertise so freely.
Even though I believe you when you say you know one when you see one, I'm going to cut you some slack on this little quiz I have prepared for you. You can declare your opinion on each of the following seven MPLs as NT or AT but I will allow you to add a fudge factor: you can say a coin is NT or AT but you can also add that you are "90% sure" or "70% sure" or whatever percentage expresses your degree of certainty. Here you go:
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
I'm sure that you will respectfully respond to Richard, but I am very curious about another issue, and it has been on my mind for some time. You stated that you have done extensive research in blue copper. You also mentioned the "tissue toned" issue in the string a few times and imply it is a 'story' to use your word, and ask "What makes the MPLs so special?" With what you have stated in this string, I'm absolutely certain that you have truly studied your copper.
In my own thought process, I happen to have publicly stated the same belief about the tissue paper 'story'(?), in another way, that perhaps it is not "tissue sulfur" that has toned many of the MPLs but the actual impurities in the copper itself though a natural impurity leeching and oxidation process (through an article that was published in Kevin's Flynn's new book "Lincoln Cent Matte Proofs" [See pages 36-38]. As one point of easy evidence for my argument, I can simply point to the very coin I use as my own avatar, which is a nice concentrically toned (see below) PCGS-certified mint state 1909 Lincoln Cent, and as it was obviously struck for circulation, and not delivered from the mint to anyone wrapped in tissue paper, one could argue that beautifully toned copper is NOT caused exclusively by tissue paper (it also begs the question as to whether any MPLs are really toned by tissue paper at all). This is what you imply, I think. Given my article and the facts stated in it, the circulation coin question above, the fact that many MPLs are NOT wildly toned but simply browned like any circulation copper, and the fact that my research indicates that heavy blue-green toning on copper takes place from between 4-30 years time, as I mention in this string, than one could make the argument that all colorfully toned older copper coins (even my own circulation 1909 and certainly my MPLs) are suspect.
Would you go that far in your argument, Mike?
Duane
<< <i>Hey MikeInFL, I've heard some dealers here claim that the blue color was there all along, it was just being hidden by lacquer. Once the lacquer is removed the monochromatic blue will reveal itself. >>
I am skeptical of this story. However, I haven't seen one of these coins in-hand, nor have I experimented with lacquer, so I am hesitant to go any farther than skepticism.
<< <i>Also from that thread across the street a few years ago, I distinctly recall gmarguli stating emphatically that the TPG's were made aware of MS70 and the things it can do to copper, yet they continued slabbing the coins. >>
Our understanding is the same, and I have additional information and have had additional conversations that confirms this.
<< <i>As I don't have the eloquence or patience you do, I'm now bowing out of this thread, as the last time I was in one of these discussions it turned pretty ugly, and people wanted to see me get paint on my face
I promise not to get ugly if you don't.
Take care...Mike
<< <i><< Hey MikeInFL, I've heard some dealers here claim that the blue color was there all along, it was just being hidden by lacquer. Once the lacquer is removed the monochromatic blue will reveal itself. >>
I am skeptical of this story. However, I haven't seen one of these coins in-hand, nor have I experimented with lacquer, so I am hesitant to go any farther than skepticism. >>
I'm not. Legend purchased a coin from auction one time that was lacquered from a long time ago and upon removal the coin was blue. The only thing used on the coin was acetone, which is inert with regards to reacting with the surface of a coin.
<< <i>You can declare your opinion on each of the following seven MPLs as NT or AT but I will allow you to add a fudge factor: you can say a coin is NT or AT but you can also add that you are "90% sure" or "70% sure" or whatever percentage expresses your degree of certainty. Here you go:
While I do have a bit of knowledge on blue-toned copper and MS-70, I do not profess to be an expert when it comes to AT and NT coins. There are others that are far better than I am, and have far more knowledge on the subject.
That said (and taking a deep breath because I expect to be met with more resistance), I don't see a no-brainer NT coin in the lot -- in fact I don't see one in this entire thread. Every single coin above is questionable to some extent, with the 1909VDB striking me as the most natural looking of the lot (along with Duane's target toned example). It appears to have what you see in the original proof sets -- copper with skin and spots. The rest seem to be lacking skin and spots. While some of this may be the photographic method employed by TrueView, an apparent lack of spots and skin instantly gets my numismatic antenna erect (pardon the pun).
So, all disclaimers aside, here's how I would answer your question:
13 - AT 75%
16 - AT 90% (MS 70)
10 - AT 80% (MS 70)
14 - AT 75%
09vdb - NT 60%
12 - AT 75%
11 - AT 75%
To help illustrate the point above, here are what I believe to be a few original proof sets. Study the copper very carefully -- particularly the more realistic in-slab pics. What do you see?
1898 set
1906 set
I see skin & spots.
On the other hand, here's one that looks to me to have been worked:
Worked 1893 set
See the difference?
All of the above is IMHO and respectfully submitted...Mike
<< <i>
<< <i><< Hey MikeInFL, I've heard some dealers here claim that the blue color was there all along, it was just being hidden by lacquer. Once the lacquer is removed the monochromatic blue will reveal itself. >>
I am skeptical of this story. However, I haven't seen one of these coins in-hand, nor have I experimented with lacquer, so I am hesitant to go any farther than skepticism. >>
I'm not. Legend purchased a coin from auction one time that was lacquered from a long time ago and upon removal the coin was blue. The only thing used on the coin was acetone, which is inert with regards to reacting with the surface of a coin. >>
I believe you, Bruce. However, can you eliminate the possibility that the lacquer itself toned the coin blue? Also, how did the blue on this coin compare to the MS-70 blue and the blue-green of the Randall Hoard coin posted above?
TDN-
Acetone may be inert, but it can react with copper to cause the copper to turn a number of different colors, including colors in the blue family.
Respectfully,
Duane
<< <i>In my own thought process, I happen to have publicly stated the same belief about the tissue paper 'story'(?), in another way, that perhaps it is not "tissue sulfur" that has toned many of the MPLs but the actual impurities in the copper itself though a natural impurity leeching and oxidation process (through an article that was published in Kevin's Flynn's new book "Lincoln Cent Matte Proofs" [See pages 36-38]. >>
While I respect Mr. Flynn's work and experience, I am skeptical of this argument. It is my understanding impurities don't "leech" in metals per-se, and if they do, they appear as spots (think carbon spots on copper & nickel as shown on the proof sets above, and copper spots in gold), not colorful toning.
<< <i>As one point of easy evidence for my argument, I can simply point to the very coin I use as my own avatar, which is a nice concentrically toned (see below) PCGS-certified mint state 1909 Lincoln Cent, and as it was obviously struck for circulation, and not delivered from the mint to anyone wrapped in tissue paper, one could argue that beautifully toned copper is NOT caused exclusively by tissue paper (it also begs the question as to whether any MPLs are really toned by tissue paper at all). This is what you imply, I think. Given my article and the facts stated in it, the circulation coin question above, the fact that many MPLs are NOT wildly toned but simply browned like any circulation copper, and the fact that my research indicates that heavy blue-green toning on copper takes place from between 4-30 years time, as I mention in this string, than one could make the argument that all colorfully toned older copper coins (even my own circulation 1909 and certainly my MPLs) are suspect.
Would you go that far in your argument, Mike? >>
Yes, I would.
To use your own coin as an example, the coin is clearly an album toned coin (I'd guess Wayte Raymond by the colors, but it could be any number of them). But who's to say the toning took 3 months in an album placed in a warm place after the coin was dipped -versus- or 30 years in an album after sitting in a roll for 60? Nobody can conclusively say one way or the other. While one would like to think the presence of "skin" would help make the determination, that's not always the case. And that's why I always assume toned coins are AT/QT (and try and buy them for their underlying technical grade) unless I have very solid information to the contrary.
Another phase to this discussion is the very definition of AT & NT. But that's a whole different rabbit hole that I'd prefer to not go down, as the discussion tends to get just as heated and divisive, but suffice it to say that personally I group coins in three groups: No-brainer NT coins (like the Randall hoard coin), no-brainer AT coins (like the MS-70 coins posted above), and QT coins (all the rest). But in truth, I must admit the possibility that all toned coins are AT.
So you might ask yourself, what's a collector to do? Frankly, I don't have a real good answer to the question, but if you mitigate your risk as per the above (i.e. buy a coin for what it is sans-toning) one can certainly limit your risk. That's about as good of an answer as I can come up with, and I realize it is far from perfect.
Respectfully...Mike
<< <i>""The only thing used on the coin was acetone, which is inert with regards to reacting with the surface of a coin.""
TDN-
Acetone may be inert, but it can react with copper to cause the copper to turn a number of different colors, including colors in the blue family.
Respectfully,
Duane >>
From what I've heard, acetone IS inert with respect to uncontaminated copper, but God forbid there's any PVC residue, which can react to acetone, and often leads to "wild" toning that just looks unnatural.
Also, with respect to acetone, it does have the effect of essentially destroying "skin" on a coin. I mean, skin is really just another surface contaminate comprised of microscopic dust and oxidation. When you look at it verrry closely, like under 50x - 100x, it looks like little peaks and valleys. The effect of acetone is really just to flatten out the peaks and valleys, leaving a more reflective surface. Here, I have a nice 1912-s Lincoln that has been slabbed by both TPGs (NGC 66RB and PCGS 64RB) that you can look at with a 10x loupe and actually see the skin to which I refer. I have often felt that PCGS' harshness with the grade on this coin was due to the subdued luster on the coin, probably due to the intact skin. I mean, it's a fireball on both sides... but if I ever want to get it into really meaningful holder, a trip to the acetone bath is probably in order. Do I really want to do that? Heavens NO! So I cracked it again, and now it sits in my Dansco 7070 set. Ha!
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes