Tetradrachma

arty62

I recieved this coin as a gift long time ago. Can anyone identify? Value?

ajaan

Can't give a value, but I like it if it's authentic.

Blackborder

Coin is not authentic in my opinion.

arty68

Coin is authentic...I have a certificate of authenticity. I am just trying to get some update on the current value of this coin. I usually peruse US coin side...thought the darkside was where to get values for foreign coins?

Aethelred

<< <i>Coin is authentic...I have a certificate of authenticity. I am just trying to get some update on the current value of this coin. I usually peruse US coin side...thought the darkside was where to get values for foreign coins? >>



A certificate of authenticity is meaningless. What is the weight on this coin?

Sapyx

The coin is (or purports to be) a Tyrian tetradrachm, or shekel, dated Year 28 of the City's Liberation (= 99/98 BC). If genuine, it would be worth on the order of $500 to $600. Here's an example of an apparently almost identical coin, same date, monograms etc, which sold at auction in 2005 for a bit over US$500.

Aethelred has a point: a certificate of authenticity is only as good as the reputation of the person or company that issued it. A CoA from David Sear is meaningful; a CoA from Slavey Petrov is not. Obviously, it's not going to come with an "original" certificate of authenticity, like a modern NCLT coin does - CoA's hadn't been invented in 99 BC.

I'd like to hear if Blackborder (or anyone else) has specific reasons for condemning this coin. For me, I see several pros and cons, that leave me undecided, but leaning more towards it being genuine.

Pros:

- It's not a cheap, shoddy, made-to-fool-tourists cast fake. If it's a fake, it's a fairly well made, die-struck one.

- Stylistically, it doesn't look "wrong" to me.

- The die-cutter has made a curious error, not once but twice: the Greek letter "R" (shaped like a "P") in the reverse legend is missing the top curve, making it look like an "I". This might have been indicative of a lazy or ignorant counterfeiter, except for the fact that other coins with this date also contain this error. To me, this adds to the authenticity.

Cons:

- These coins are marketed as examples of the "thirty pieces of silver" - in other words, as Biblical coins (even for ones like this, which are dated to well before the time of Christ). As such, they are popular with collectors, and therefore frequently copied.

- A fake with this same date is listed on the FORVM fake database. The one listed there is a lot more worn, and a lot cruder, but it does provide a worrying precedent.

- The obverse seems somewhat scuffed, with bright grey material showing through the silver. Now, this may just be the lighting, but it might be evidence of a thin later of artificial patina that's rubbed off.

If you can obtain a weight, that might be helpful - the coin should weigh 14 to 14.5 grams. Further information on who issued the CoA might also help set our minds at ease.

arty68

What I know for sure is that the coin is silver and weighs almost 15 grams. COA from a shop in Israel....me not home right now so cant supply name. Another source put the value at over $3000.

arty68

Where would I go to get a fair evaluation? Is there a grading agency like PCGS for ancient coins?

ajaan

ICG used to be the main TPG for ancient coins. I don't know if they still do them. The new ANACS is supposed to grade ancients but I don't know if they do it yet. The last email I got from James Taylor, right after he bought ANACS, he said 'in the near future'. I would shoot ANACS an email and ask them.

Aethelred

I talked to a rep at ANACS about a week ago, they told me that ANACS will be grading ancient coins soon, but they are not doing it just yet.

Blackborder

<< <i>
Aethelred has a point: a certificate of authenticity is only as good as the reputation of the person or company that issued it. A CoA from David Sear is meaningful; a CoA from Slavey Petrov is not. Obviously, it's not going to come with an "original" certificate of authenticity, like a modern NCLT coin does - CoA's hadn't been invented in 99 BC.

I'd like to hear if Blackborder (or anyone else) has specific reasons for condemning this coin. For me, I see several pros and cons, that leave me undecided, but leaning more towards it being genuine.

Cons:

- The obverse seems somewhat scuffed, with bright grey material showing through the silver. Now, this may just be the lighting, but it might be evidence of a thin later of artificial patina that's rubbed off. >>




That was one of the points that make me think it may not be genuine. Also, the fabric of the coin seems off, lack of flow lines etc. Coins give you a first impression, either bad or good. My first impression was that it isn't genuine.

The coin shop COA is also meaningless in my opinion.

All that being said, it's been years since I collected coins (ancient and otherwise), so my opinion is virtually meaningless as well.

covers

message moved

arty68

I have come to the realization that info on ancient world coins is hard to get at best. What I am looking for is advice as to dealer or appraiser who can give me good info on this coin. Are there not dealers who handle this type of coin?

ajaan

Contact Josh at Civitas . He can probably help you.

globalcoin

I believe Jeff Berman could help. He's at a lot of the major shows.

ajaan

Allen Berman is an expert in the field but isn't that easy to get a hold of except at a larger show.

globalcoin

Thats the guy I was thinking off. I had a table next to his in Boston a few years ago. He really knows his stuff.

determined

arty62,

As Sapyx mentioned, David Sears is one of the most respected names for ancient coin authentication. But it will cost you $40 to $50. And it's certified, but not slabbed.

But if you want a free authentication that is just as good, but you wont have a certificate, post your coin pictures on this forum: Fake Ancient Coin Reports and Discussion. Some of the most knowledgeable collectors and dealers of ancient coins post there. And that forum is specifically for people to post their coins if their authenticity is in question. You should get some good responses from experienced people. And they can give you the value of your coin.

And if you want more opinions post on the Yahoo Group CoinForgeryDiscussionList.

I've been collecting ancient coins for over a decade and I will say that the obverse of your coin looks suspect to me. But I don't collect those coins so you should get some more experienced opinions.

EDIT: Here's one more forum you can post your coin on and get trustworthy responses: Ancient.info: Authenticity

johnsim03

Modern forgery, according to Sear.

Here is the certificate:

Link

p.s. A good example of how some "certificates of authenticity" are worthless. Buyer beware!

John

Blackborder

Thanks for the follow up John.

determined

Yes thanks, I was wondering how this came out. But I wish it was otherwise.

Sapyx

Yep, I saw that over on FORVM. I was going to give him a few days to come here and post likewise.

What else can I say, except, "It would have fooled me".

deadmunny

So does that make the coin shop in Israel a crooked shop? They issued the COA. I guess it's hard to say unless you know the whole story. They could say we had the coin evaluated by a "couple of ancient coin experts". Hope they didn't take him (current coin owner) for too much $$$.

CIVITAS

<< <i>So does that make the coin shop in Israel a crooked shop? They issued the COA. I guess it's hard to say unless you know the whole story. They could say we had the coin evaluated by a "couple of ancient coin experts". Hope they didn't take him (current coin owner) for too much $$$. >>



I guess it depends on what their COA entitles him to. If they will give him a full refund if he returns the coin with his COA then I guess they're not necessarily crooked and the COA is not worthless. Though that doesn't mean they aren't trying to pawn off fakes and then take back the small percentage that are discovered. Of course it doesn't mean they are either.

arty62

Hey everyone, I am sorry that I didnt report over here about Sear decision. Got lost trying to make sure the coin listed on forgeries sites. Cost of coin was $3450 US. In process now of recovering $$$ if possible. Will follow up for sure when completed.