Update on the 1964 PR70 Washington submitted for "Guarantee Service"

MoneyLA · January 22, 2002 12:17PM

You're not going to believe this... but it appears that the coin is LOST IN THE MAIL. I mailed it to PCGS priority insured, and since it was fully insured and in excess of $100 the coin must be signed for. Well, after several calls to PCGS and to the post office, it appears the coin is nowhere to be found. The coin was never signed for; and right now there is no evidence that the coin even arrived at the Newport Beach post office. The only record right now shows that it was mailed from my home, which is about a two-hour car drive to Newport Beach. All I can say is, thank goodness it was fully insured -- and if the coin does not turn up -- PCGS won't have to regrade the coin nor pay off on it if indeed it is NOT a PR70. The postal service people in Newport Beach are now investigating; they have the insurance number, etc. but after more than a week in transit for a shipment that is usually delivered the next day, I believe we can kiss this one goodby. cheers, alan mendelson

dbldie55 · January 22, 2002 12:28PM

There has been a big thing going on with coins being stolen en route to and from the Grading services. Saw it on the ANA web site. A coin like this may turn up again, because if the theifs break it out, they may end up loosing all of its value. Hope the Post Office ponies up. We had the Post Office call us and tell us one of our packages with over $3,000 worth of items was stolen, but they still made us wait 30 days and have the person who it was sent to fill out all of the forms. A real hassle, as it seems one of their employees stole it.

billywls · January 22, 2002 12:36PM

The safest way to send coins is registered & insured mail. Every postal employee who has control of the piece must sign off. If it is stolen, the postal inspectors can usually solve the case quickly.

dbldie55 · January 22, 2002 1:02PM

Bill, that was how our package was sent (registered and insured). That is how the Post Office knew it was stolen within 2 days of being sent. I don't think they ever found who did it though.

Dabigkahuna · January 22, 2002 4:04PM

Alan,
The Post office will require a receipt if I remember right. They always ask for something saying what you paid for it. If they are real sticklers, they will want proof of worth. I do agree that "registered insured" mail is the safest way to go. It can be a pain when you go to file for the loss depending on who you get to serve you. Sorry to hear about your loss, I was looking forward to hearing how PCGS was going handle this. A real hands on story.

Is the cert. number still registered in one of your sets? It may be a good idea to have it registered and notify PCGS (Gayle) that the coin was stolen? I don't know but perhaps they could tell if someone else was trying to register it? Maybe?

Larry
Dabigkahuna

MoneyLA · January 22, 2002 4:30PM

Larry, thanks for the response. I have no trouble documenting the cost of the coin, as this one was bought on eBay just a couple of weeks ago. I have the print out of the auction, of course, as well as the stub from the POSTAL money order used to pay for it. So no problem there.

This coin was NOT part of my registry set, and unfortunately, I never thought to write down the cert number on the slab. The eBay auction did not have a scan; maybe the seller had the cert # written down and I will email him about it.

Frankly, if the coin doesnt show up I feel confident I will get my money -- and the icing on the cake is that the credit card charge for PCGS and return shipping won't go through. Heck, I might even come out ahead if the coin is lost forever.

I will keep you posted on developments as the Newport Beach post office is supposed to contact me Wednesday with an update.

By the way, the post office manager I talked to on the phone tried to "brush me off" when I called to say an insured package was missing. But when I said it was sent to PCGS she became very attentive and interested in all the details. So maybe I'm not alone in this situation.

All I can say is, thank goodness for the insurance.

cheers, alan mendelson

supercoin · January 22, 2002 4:38PM

Hope it turns out well for you, too bad you don't have the slab number as that would be useful in a criminal investigation.

In any case thanks for the heads-up, guess I might have to re-think my "Express Mail and risk it" strategy for sending coins to PCGS for submission!

MoneyLA · January 22, 2002 4:51PM

The "funny thing" is, I was thinking of holding the coin until Long Beach and just bringing it to PCGS table at the show. But I was impatient to find out about the grade of the coin and decided to mail it off. Oh well.

I remember when I sent my registry set in for the pedigree service--- that was sent registered and maxi-insured. Registered mail, however, is second to a hands-on delivery.

Well, it was only one coin this time.

By the way, a friend of mine lost a shipment of dozens of Indian Head cents sent to ANACS a few months ago. Unfortunately, he underinsured his package (he said he was in a rush and forgot the correct amount), AND he enclosed CASH for the ANACS fees. Yikes, he took it in the shorts on that one.

Never send cash and NEVER underinsure a package.

cheers, alan mendelson

dbldie55 · January 22, 2002 4:55PM

And do not forget that the USPS will not pay out more than $25,000 regardless of what you insure it for. That one will really get you.

MoneyLA · January 22, 2002 5:30PM

You are correct about the $25K max on insurance, which is a reason why more valuable shipments should be split up, with each insured for the max. cheers, alan

keithdagen · January 23, 2002 1:07AM

Alan,

That really bites. In three years of E-Baying, I went forever with only one incident. A certified gold piece I sent in a mailer arrived with the mailer torn by a maching and the coin missing. USPS paid up immediately. Then, right around August of last year, I had three packages go missing. One was found, but I had to get insurance claims for the other 2. And one of them I could have had delivered in 30 minutes if I had thought about it. Those claims were a pain, because USPS tried to stall by saying that a E-Bay auction listing did not constitute value. They eventually paid, but it was a nightmare.

Keith

MoneyLA · January 23, 2002 2:32AM

Well, it's Wednesday morning about 10:30am and the Newport Beach post office has called with the official update: there is no sign of the package and no record of it arriving in Newport Beach. I called my post office where it was mailed and again they checked and they see no sign of it. Bottom line: it is now officially "lost" and I've been told by my local post office to file a claim. As noted previously, I have the stub of the postal money order showing the exact cost, so I have the back-up for the claim and it was fully insured. Thank goodness.

I have also emailed the seller on eBay asking if he, by any chance, noted the cert number-- as I did not.

So, it looks like the pop on 1964 PR70 Washington Quarters is now reduced by one.

cheers, alan mendelson

goldenpony · January 23, 2002 3:24AM

I send every package with delivery confirm. Also every coin sent for grading goes registered.

I hope it turns up for you soon.

MoneyLA · January 23, 2002 3:42AM

If you send something registered, express mail, insured for $100 or more, or certified, delivery confirmation is a waste of money. With those services the postal service will be able to tell you when the item was delivered and who signed for it if a signature was required (certified, insurance for $100 or more, registered).

If I had to lose something in the mail THIS was the shipment to be lost. Remember, I was sending it back to PCGS expecting they would downgrade the coin.

cheers, alan mendelson

gmarguli · January 23, 2002 3:44AM

USPS tried to stall by saying that a E-Bay auction listing did not constitute value

Ask to talk to a supervisor if they give you this line. An eBay auction is a great guide to determining the exact value. They're idiots if they say otherwise.

Delivery confirmation is useless. All it means is that the package was delivered. To who? Where? When? It's meaningless. It just helps the Post Office avoid liability on insured packages. I've also got packages I sent with DC that I know were delivered, but it never showed that on the Post Office web site.

keithdagen · January 23, 2002 3:48AM

Greg,

They paid up in a timely manner. I told the clerk at the Post Office to file the form. The Regional Supervisor denied it for lack of proof of value. I sent them a nasty letter and a check mysteriously appeared in the mail a few weeks later.

Alan,

Just because the package requires signatures doesn't mean you get one. I have come home several times only to find a package from Teletrade (certified) or David Lawrence (insured $100+) in my box because the postman was too lazy to fill out that orange form. Only safe way to send anything is Registered, because the employees have to sign for it at each step of the way and the packages are kept locked up.

Keith

dbldie55 · January 23, 2002 4:03AM

The longest it ever took to get an Ebay item was for a Hard Drive I bought in December. I had given up hope, but after 28 days it showed up. Guess that gives the 30 day waiting period that the USPS has for insurance claims some credit. But, if it was registered, they would already know it is gone, and I would bet highly against it showing up.

DHeath · January 23, 2002 8:23AM

Hi All,

Just a quick note to say that the USPS also "lost" my most recent submission to PCGS that included a 1965 SMS DCAM Half as well as a 70-D , 82 P and D, and 83 P and D halves from souvenir sets picked up at the mints and 70-74 proof dcam halves. I only insured for $1500 as I have never lost a shipment before, and I just submitted the claim at the local post office today. Since most of these coins came from my personal collection, I only have my opinion and the various price guides to establish their value. I'll let you know the outcome. Lucky me, the package sent the next day that only contained 10 sacagaweas made it with no problem. Do you think the thiefs know something?

MoneyLA · January 23, 2002 9:23AM

Don Heath wrote: Do you think the thiefs know something?

Well, Don, maybe they're using the new anti-terrorism xray machines to scan the boxes to determine what to pick off?

Seriously, it's a shame what is happening; there are too many reports of pilferred mail. Not only on the sending end, but also the receiving end. How many of us have Coin World delivered to our homes, or COINage -- what a tip off to what we have!! And those auction catalogues too. Yikes. We are setting ourselves up for disaster.

I remember reading somewhere that it is a good idea to have a post office box for delivery of "sensitive" items -- coin magazines, auction catalogues, even delivery of the coins and other collectibles. This will keep the crooks away from our homes.

Im beginning to think this small investment in a PO box will pay big dividends.

Sorry this happened to you Don and good luck with your claim.

Maybe PCGS can come up with a "blind box address" also to eliminate the initials PCGS on those packages?

cheers, alan mendelson

gmarguli · January 23, 2002 4:33PM

Im beginning to think this small investment in a PO box will pay big dividends.

I cannot imagine selling a single coin on eBay without using a PO Box for payment. I've had someone purchase from me that I could have literally walked the coin to their house. Another person was less than a 5 minute drive from me and a few have been maybe a 10 minute drive. I wouldn't want these people knowing how close I live to them.

Maybe PCGS can come up with a "blind box address" also to eliminate the initials PCGS on those packages?

When sending to PCGS, you don't have to put PCGS on the package. Just use the box number. You could also use CU or Collectors Universe. The return packages no longer say PCGS, but instead say CU.

MoneyLA · January 23, 2002 5:42PM

It wasn't easy, but using a lot of Internet savvy -- and maybe some luck -- I was able to get the cert number on the missing slab. Here it is, just in case someone offers you a 1964 pr70 Washington at a bargain "hot" price:

7728012 repeat: 7728012

I will be calling Gayle with the cert number and hopefully she will "red flag" it.

I went to the post office late Wednesday and filed the insurance claim. Interestingly, I was told that the post office still might "find" it. Rather than being "stolen" they say it is possible that it was sprayed with an incorrect barcode during processing and may have been misdelivered, and is now sitting somewhere waiting to be returned. Registered mail is checked immediately for improper barcodes but insured, priority mail (like this package) rarely get a check, and the errors have to work their way through the system. If the package is found I'm back at square one-- waiting for PCGS to review the coin to see if it is indeed a PR70.

cheers, alan mendelson

MoneyLA · January 24, 2002 4:01AM

Gayle has been notified about the cert number. cheers, alan mendelson

Update on the 1964 PR70 Washington submitted for &quot;Guarantee Service&quot;

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Update on the 1964 PR70 Washington submitted for "Guarantee Service"