Sad 20th anniversary SAE milk spot story, need some input.

Lionel

In November of 2006 I purchased nine certified NGC 69/69/69 20th Anniv SAE sets and put them in a safe deposit box.

I've been tracking the "milk spot" phenomina, but I thought that if any of my coins were affected, it would be only a few.

Then a few days ago, I was watching Coin Vault, and they were selling the sets for $799 each, and I could have sworn I saw milk spots on the RP coin in the set they had on camera.

I began to wonder about my sets, so I looked at them and sure enough, most all the reverse proof coins have milk spots. One or two have them visible on the skirt of the RP coin, but others are smaller and less visible. I'm guessing that they all have them a bit.

So, are these coins "worthless" or just "worth less". I'm willing to sell them significantly under the current EBAY value of about $400 a set just to get my original investment back, and I'll be totally straightforward about the milk spots.

FLBuffaloHunter

NGC has a grade guarantee that covers spotting on ASE's send them to them and they will remove the spots or pay you fair market value for the coins. I suggest you contact NGC customer service for the best way on how to proceed.

FLBuffaloHunter

I firmly believe that a spot-free 20th anniversary ASE PR70 Reverse Proof or MS70 Uncirculated will be extremely rare to find. If this is the case, then collectors will need to look at spotted examples for completing their collection.

Lionel

I wasn't the one who sent them in for grading, I bought the sets graded. Do you think NGC would help me at all?

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>I wasn't the one who sent them in for grading, I bought the sets graded. Do you think NGC would help me at all? >>


The grade guarantee covers the coin in their holder. It does not matter who submitted the coins for grading.

INXS

Just one of the reasons I sold all my slabbed SAE's except the ones in my Dansco and they are as white and bright as the day they went in there. I couldnt take the fact that on any day I could end up with milk spots on my coins. I had over 100 of them and sold them all. I even sold the 10 20th Anniversary sets that were raw.

ahooka454

I have a question for you guys, I am not really fimiliar with this problem, but could it be something in the slabs themselves? just a thought....

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>I have a question for you guys, I am not really fimiliar with this problem, but could it be something in the slabs themselves? just a thought.... >>


In a Coin World article, David Hall assured collectors nothing in the slabs is causing the spotting. The cause is unkown ATM.

Link

Bochiman

<< <i>I have a question for you guys, I am not really fimiliar with this problem, but could it be something in the slabs themselves? just a thought.... >>



Do a forum search..there are a lot of threads on this and you will get all the info you want...more than just a couple people answering here.

INXS

Whatever became of PCGS's involvement into the cause of these spots? Didnt they say they were going to do tests and investigate this issue?

ahooka454

Did any of the other threads contian why the slab couldnt be the culprit? thanks for the advice.

Bochiman

<< <i>Whatever became of PCGS's involvement into the cause of these spots? Didnt they say they were going to do tests and investigate this issue? >>



That was one of the threads I was alluding to. Nothing has been updated by PCGS/CU/HRH on that....still a $50k reward available

bestday

Anyone getting the spots from their ASEs stored in the Intercept holders ? Mine have been stored in the holders for a year , without any spotting .

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>Anyone getting the spots from their ASEs stored in the Intercept holders ? Mine have been stored in the holders for a year , without any spotting . >>


My 20th anniversary ASE's were strored in Intercept Shield double protection boxes and developed spotting. I believe the spots are from contamination on the coins surface, possibly from a bad rinse. Intercept Shield is designed to protect against corrosive gases in the atmosphere from tarnishing the coins surface. As such IMO, Intercept Shield is inefective in preventing spotting on ASE that may already have contamination present on the coin surface.

ahooka454

i have 3 69 ngc sets, none have spotting yet but i will keep an eye on them now.

stev32k

I purchased ten sets of the 20th anniversary SAEs and every one of them had one or more coins spotted. Some of the RP's were pretty bad right out of the box and I posted some pictures of them (but can't find them now). I returned all of them to the mint and asked for replacements. Three of the replacements sets I received have developed spots on the RP two others have spots on the regular proof and the UNC.

The Government has been minting SAEs since 1986 - that's 21 years - and the milk spot problem has been a continuing defect since the start. I don't believe a private company could manufacture defective products for 21 years and stay in business. But the good ole mint keeps cranking out milk spotted SAEs by the ton and collectors still buy them ( including me - but I do complain a lot).

greymars

Can someone post a few pictures of the SAE milk spots for reference, to help identify the problem? Perhaps pics of varying degrees of these spots would be most helpful.

Thank you,

Gary

FLBuffaloHunter

Griv

Oh yea, I also have a 04 PR70Dcam with spots. What INF is the Mint doing???????????????

greymars

Thank you for the pics

I will keep an eye on the SAE's that I have. They are SAE Collector Clubs dated 2002 and 2004

MYTWOCENTS

This is a stupid question I know but can anyone tell me what causes those spots?
Dave

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

Oh yea, I also have a 04 PR70Dcam with spots. What INF is the Mint doing??????????????? >>



The mint may not be doing anything.

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>The mint may not be doing anything. >>


Interestingly, I have been told that when approached in the past about the spotting issue on ASE's the Mint was reluctant to do anything or look into the problem because according to them they were sold as silver bullion and as such they do not consider them having numismatic worth. However since they are now marketing the burnished 'W' coins directly to collectors, and they represent them as being 'collectors versions' of the bullion coins, they can no longer say that.

COINB0Y

An FOI request would be quite nice. They can't hide that info behind National Security excuses.

COINB0Y

Will an acetone bath do anything to help , now?

BAJJERFAN

Once the spots form on the uncirc coins they are next to impossible to remove and not leave behind some evidence of their existence. PCGS says that they can usually be removed from proof surfaces. If the coins are dipped before the spots appear spotting can usually be prevented.

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>An FOI request would be quite nice. They can't hide that info behind National Security excuses. >>


I feel if something is not done about the epidemic problem, the ASE colector base will suffer as nobody is willing to invest in a collection that may just spot without warning and become bullion.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>The mint may not be doing anything. >>


Interestingly, I have been told that when approached in the past about the spotting issue on ASE's the Mint was reluctant to do anything or look into the problem because according to them they were sold as silver bullion and as such they do not consider them having numismatic worth. However since they are now marketing the burnished 'W' coins directly to collectors, and they represent them as being 'collectors versions' of the bullion coins, they can no longer say that. >>



I meant that the mint may not be doing anything in the sense that the planchets are probably purchased ready to strike. They may not be in tune with the planchet preparation process being used by the supplier.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>An FOI request would be quite nice. They can't hide that info behind National Security excuses. >>


I feel if something is not done about the epidemic problem, the ASE colector base will suffer as nobody is willing to invest in a collection that may just spot without warning and become bullion. >>



PCGS has offered a $50K reward for info leading to fixing the problem; so yes there is still considerable interest in it. I have a feeling that it will turn out to be something relatively simple, but maybe not retro enough to fix those coins already infested.

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>I meant that the mint may not be doing anything in the sense that the planchets are probably purchased ready to strike. They may not be in tune with the planchet preparation process being used by the supplier. >>


I read the Sunshine Mint was the main supplier to the Mint of silver blanks primarily used for ASE's. They were also where the NORFED Liberty dollars were minted.

Lionel

Thanks everybody.

It occured to me that if nearly all my nine RPs have milk spots (some tiny, but undeniably there) then statistically speaking this plague (maybe we could "name the plague") is way more serious than I thought.

I looked on a lot of EBAY pics for these sets being auctioned, and in most cases the pics were not large or clear enough to tell if the RP coin had milk spots. I fear many are buying and selling these perhaps without knowing it.

I do know that I'll never put any money into SAE's again. Platinum is expensive, but way safer it would seem.

Zoins

<< <i>It occured to me that if nearly all my nine RPs have milk spots (some tiny, but undeniably there) then statistically speaking this plague (maybe we could "name the plague") is way more serious than I thought. >>

Part of this seems to depend on where you live and how humid it is. In certain areas, spotting is uncommon. Vacuum Food Saver bags also seem to help.

<< <i>I looked on a lot of EBAY pics for these sets being auctioned, and in most cases the pics were not large or clear enough to tell if the RP coin had milk spots. >>

It's been said that spots can be seen under UV light before white light light so it's possible to sell them after spots have started to form but before they are visible under normal conditions.

Lionel

<< <i>

<< <i>It occured to me that if nearly all my nine RPs have milk spots (some tiny, but undeniably there) then statistically speaking this plague (maybe we could "name the plague") is way more serious than I thought. >>

Part of this seems to depend on where you live and how humid it is. In certain areas, spotting is uncommon. Vacuum Food Saver bags also seem to help.

<< <i>I looked on a lot of EBAY pics for these sets being auctioned, and in most cases the pics were not large or clear enough to tell if the RP coin had milk spots. >>

It's been said that spots can be seen under UV light before white light light so it's possible to sell them after spots have started to form but before they are visible under normal conditions. >>



Cool. I've got a pocked size UV light around here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it and take a look.

YaHa

I heard somebody at the US Milk was drinking Milk on the job and might of sneezed on a huge pile on reverse proofs. That could be the answer right there. Also this same employee has been employed at the same place since 1986 and continues to place the bullion silver dollars in the boxes for delivery.

The Us Milk has stated that John Coinhead will not be allowed to drink milk no more while packing coins. This has cause a great loss of revenue and a embarrassment to the Milk Spot Caper. So anyone that has a coin with a Milk Spot on it, please just throw them in the trash because Milk only does the body good!!

I have checked 3 of my Ngc 70 and 2 of my others from Pcgs and Icg and no MILK SPOTS.

OBSESDD

I've been absent from the forum for a little while (working to pay for my plats). After seeing all the drama about milk spots showing up on these 20th's I took my 20th hoard out and went through all of them. I had several with spots (out of dozens) but none too bad (yet). Guess it's time to sell milk on the bay and hope the others don't develop milk.

pf70collector

I am disposing of my 18 anniversary sets on ebay. No long term holding for these. I am very disappointed but not surprised.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>This is a stupid question I know but can anyone tell me what causes those spots?
Dave >>



These guys??

ldhair

I have bought one proof every year from the mint from the start of the program.
Picked up one of every unc from someone different each year.
These went into airtite holders almost like the mint uses.
I have them all in Eagle pages in a 3 ring binder. None have any spots as of now.
I'm thinking temp. and humidity have something to do with the problem.

stev32k

Here's a RP that had been out of mint packaging less than an hour. The spots show up pretty well in the photo, but were hard to see in hand unless you knew they were there. This is one of the ones I returned from the original 10 set order. I feel pretty sure the mint shipped the spotted coins I returned to someone else - can't imagine what they look like now.