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These Chinese fakes are getting much better...

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  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    If they could get the mint mark right, it would fool a lot more people, too.
  • BullishBullish Posts: 374
    I would not, buy it unslabbed. But, how do know, it's not real? I'm not a morgan guy.
    SEE the BULL!! BUY the BULL!! BE the BULL!! Do your homework first. And, you will learn alot!!
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I would not, buy it unslabbed. But, how do know, it's not real? I'm not a morgan guy. >>



    Ah, but it WAS slabbed. They just can't tell you by who, but it was by someone.
    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • BullishBullish Posts: 374
    That's funny, I guess it's the mintmark, from what ziggy mentioned.
    SEE the BULL!! BUY the BULL!! BE the BULL!! Do your homework first. And, you will learn alot!!
  • BigRedBigRed Posts: 716
    At this rate how good will they be in 5 years.......10 years?image
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,301 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How do you know the coin is fake and not just altered?

    And how do you know it's Chinese?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • SmittysSmittys Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    did anyone report it??
    https://www.ebay.com/str/christyscoins
  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,580 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>At this rate how good will they be in 5 years.......10 years?image >>



    Sometimes I think I should get a PCGS slabbed problem free Trade Dollar *now* before fake slabs and Trade Dollars flood the market.
    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I reported it.
    bob
    And yes, it's a Chinese counterfeit.
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    The mintmark isn't even close to how it should look. It's sad how many counterfeits and alterations there are out there though...gotta buy 'em certified!
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    Well, I e-mailed the seller and asked him who had slabbed it and how I felt the mintmark looked odd. His response: "The coin was slabbed by ANACS. "EF DETAILS CLEANED". I am including the slab insert with the coin to the winner. The odd appearance is apparently due to the cleaning. I fully guarantee all coins I sell to be GENUINE. This coin is GENUINE according to it's previous ANACS' slabbing."

    I still think the mintmark looks really suspect. And why wouldn't the seller mention ANACS as opposed to "very reputable TPG?" Strange....
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,050 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Well, I e-mailed the seller and asked him who had slabbed it and how I felt the mintmark looked odd. His response: "The coin was slabbed by ANACS. "EF DETAILS CLEANED". I am including the slab insert with the coin to the winner. The odd appearance is apparently due to the cleaning. I fully guarantee all coins I sell to be GENUINE. This coin is GENUINE according to it's previous ANACS' slabbing."

    I still think the mintmark looks really suspect. And why wouldn't the seller mention ANACS as opposed to "very reputable TPG?" Strange.... >>


    The slab was as fake as the coin.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • rbalderman1rbalderman1 Posts: 634
    Can some1 explain to us "non" experts how you can tell it's fake? The reason he has a ANACS slab is probably because he had a real 1 and cracked it out to submit to PCGS. Now he's passing along the fake with a previously cracked slab. It's so sad how people (if they know it's fake) can take advantage of unsuspecting people.
    my EBAY items
    Successful forum transactions: jessewvu, nankraut, tootawl, levinll, mistercoinman, metalsman, adamlaneus, chuckc, fivecents, kingplatinum, jdimmick, waterzooey, moderncoinmart, bige, steelielee,
  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    The MintMark is WAY off and the date is wrong as well; specifically the 9 is all wrong.
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know. Based on the sellers other higher end coins for sale and impressive feedback, I wouldn't be so quick to call this one a fake.
    I don't think you can make a definitive call from those photos.
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,054 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The MintMark is WAY off and the date is wrong as well; specifically the 9 is all wrong. >>



    You are quite correct. The seller is full of Elmo.

    TC71

    image
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think you can make a definitive call from those photos. >>



    Yes, you can. Have you ever seen a legit 1889-CC? Like others have said, the CC isn't close and the 9 in the date looks worked on. I agree with you about his positive feedback and other coins, but maybe he got screwed on this coin and is trying to pass it off or maybe he just doesn't know...either way, that coin is one to avoid BIG TIME

    Edited to add: he does have many other nice coins for sale. I gotta think someone who sells higher end stuff would be able to tell that his 89-CC is a fake. It's sad to think that he's doing it on purpose though....I gotta think he just doesn't know...but other forum members have informed him and he keeps saying the odd appearance is due to the cleaning...not the added mintmark. Oh well. I'll report it to eBay, but I'm sure they won't do anything. He's a powerseller after all....
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure who asked him, but here's the Q&A from the auction:

    Q: I thought I would let you know the PCGS message board is calling this coin a fake.

    A: Thanks Ed, The coin was purchased in an ANACS' slab, and I will forward the ANACS insert to the winning bidder. The odd appearance is apparently due to a past cleaning. All coins I sell are fully guaranteed to be GENUINE. There's obviously some jealous 'troublemakers' who get pleasure out of trying to ruin the reputations of respectable Sellers. Thanks again for the warning. Let them say what they want. What goes around, comes around. Sincerely, Mike Cohen/seriouscoins


    I'm not jealous of someone who owns a fake as bad as that and is selling it as real! I wonder if he bought it as genuine and really thinks it is, or knows it's fake and is selling it anyway...
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just went and looked at a bunch more 1889-cc Morgans, and you're right, the "cc" sure looks strange/different on this one. image
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here's a link to one in a PCGS slab- compare how the date and CC look...the coin in the OP is undoubtedly fake. Period.

    1889-CC
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • jmcu12jmcu12 Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭
    With regards to the Mint Mark it is wrong because it looks more like the MM from an 1878 CC Dollar, very tiny and round in appearance. And too widely placed. Further, the mint mark of a genuine 1889CC has the pointed serifts at the inside of the loop of the 'C'

    The date is wrong because all 1889CC morgan dollars have a rolled digit; you guessed it the '9' is rolled up slightly. It is the same for the other mints for 1889.

    And besides that the '9' on this coin is way too large, it makes the other numbers look small while a true '9' from a real coin is the same size as the rest of the numbers.


    NO AMOUNT OF CLEANING COULD DO TO THIS COIN WHAT THIS GUY IS SAYING. PERIOD - IT IS A FAKE

    Thanks for reporting to Ebay.
    Awarded latest "YOU SUCK!": June 11, 2014
  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,747 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin pictured is not genuine.
    My question is- Why did he break it out of the anacs slab? Could it be that he tried sending it to Pcgs or Ngc for a crossover and they returned it as not genuine? We do not see the slab in the photo so the slab itself may be fake as another poster has suggested. Or there is the possibility that he had this coin all along and bought another one in an anacs slab and said that this is that coin. There are many possibilities. Can someone forward this thread to anacs? Bob

    Editted to add-- He also has a raw 22 plain lincoln cent and a raw 1916-D dime--These may be suspect also. I am not a mercury dime person but i would like to hear comments on these two coins as to if they are genuine or not. Do we have any mercury dime experts in the house? Thanks.
    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,342 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It must be real. It comes with a loose "ANACS insert". image What an idiot.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Notice how the seller's other auctions show close-ups of the date and mint mark area, but this auction shows useless close-ups of the center of the coin, omitting close-ups of the date and mint mark.

    How convenient.
    Moonlight Mint
  • pb2ypb2y Posts: 1,461 ✭
    What this country needs is a super coin grading program
    like Chinnok from Canada. last April they announced that
    the game of checkers has been solved.
    A coin grading program would be no more complicated.
    image

  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's gone.
    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • dohdoh Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭
    The coin is gone, so I suppose this is moot, but the seller sent me a close-up pic of the CC. Despite this coin, I must say he is a very courteous and friendly person to work with. (He also sent me a pic of the ANACS slab insert...I can only assume it was tampered with)
    image
    Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>The coin is gone, so I suppose this is moot, but the seller sent me a close-up pic of the CC. Despite this coin, I must say he is a very courteous and friendly person to work with. (He also sent me a pic of the ANACS slab insert...I can only assume it was tampered with)
    image >>



    Thanks for the pic. I came to the party late and the auction was already gone.

    I just compared that to mine, it's not an 89 CC. Without more info, it could be a CC Morgan I suppose, but not from '89.

    It does look more like a '78 from that picture. Whoever mentioned it, the date numerals are all the same size on my PCGS slabbed '89 CC as well.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • jdillanejdillane Posts: 2,365 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin pictured is not genuine.
    My question is- Why did he break it out of the anacs slab? Could it be that he tried sending it to Pcgs or Ngc for a crossover and they returned it as not genuine? We do not see the slab in the photo so the slab itself may be fake as another poster has suggested. Or there is the possibility that he had this coin all along and bought another one in an anacs slab and said that this is that coin. There are many possibilities. Can someone forward this thread to anacs? Bob

    Editted to add-- He also has a raw 22 plain lincoln cent and a raw 1916-D dime--These may be suspect also. I am not a mercury dime person but i would like to hear comments on these two coins as to if they are genuine or not. Do we have any mercury dime experts in the house? Thanks. >>



    He won the 1916D raw a couple weeks ago for $2050. Looks cleaned and probably legit. I am not certain but he may also be fond of AT. If the same seller, he outbid me on a 1795 from the Upstate NY Cache. A couple weeks later, it re-appeared with dark toning. I called him on it and he pulled the auction. Later relisted and made a profit. Ugh!
  • vplitevplite Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin is gone, so I suppose this is moot, but the seller sent me a close-up pic of the CC. Despite this coin, I must say he is a very courteous and friendly person to work with. (He also sent me a pic of the ANACS slab insert...I can only assume it was tampered with)
    image >>



    Before I retired from law enforcement I investigated numerous confidence schemes. I found that the best con men appeared to be the most honest, sincere, friendly and courteous, people before (and after) the rip-off. It did not make these crooks any more honest. It just made it harder to assemble the witnesses to prosecute them (denial ain't just a river in Egypt).
    The Golden Rule: Those with the gold make the rules.
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
    Maybe he bought it in one of those bogus ANACS slabs that were being churned out a few months ago.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I reported it.
    bob
    And yes, it's a Chinese counterfeit. >>



    How can you identify it as Chinese?
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I reported it.
    bob
    And yes, it's a Chinese counterfeit. >>



    How can you identify it as Chinese? >>



    Essentially there is really no way to know for sure, but it has all of the qualifications to be one of the coins made in China---grainy, dull luster, that wierd CC mintmark.

    It seems that almost every counterfeit these days is simply labeled as a "Chinese Counterfeit" even if it isn't from China. It's just kinda a way to describe it's general appearance.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,333 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I reported it.
    bob
    And yes, it's a Chinese counterfeit. >>



    How can you identify it as Chinese? >>



    You can never prove it, of course, but I have seen many counterfeit U.S. coins that the people who had them told me were purchased on the streets of China while on vacation, and this one has the same general appearance as them. So, unless somebody is making them in Bolivia or Timbuktoo or wherever and importing them into China to sell them there, they were made in China.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

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