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Why the %&*#$ is Sexson still starting?
Ichiro51fan
Posts: 379
in Sports Talk
You know, when Richie Sexson started out the first month hitting ~.200 yet again this year, I figured he would eventually kick it in. Thing is, it hasn't happened yet and we're over 100 games into the season. Dude is hitting .202 as of last night... just horrible. Outside of a 3-game stretch a couple of months back, he really hasn't seen any bench time. I don't claim to be a big-league manager, but this situation baffles the hell out of me. I mean, the M's have Ben Broussard on the bench... a legitimate ~.280-.290 hitter with a bit of pop. That guy has been cutch all year, probably amassing more big hits than Sexson in about 10% of the playing time. On Sunday, Sexson gets tossed from the game, the M's insert Broussard, and what do you know, he hits a HUGE home run! The only slight benefit to have Suxson in there is he is a pretty decent defensive 1st baseman. But that is not nearly enough to offset his horrible performance at the plate. I've watched or heard nearly every M's game this year and the guy continues to kill us almost every single game, leaving tons of runners on base and in scoring position. I can count at least 5 times where the guy has come up with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs, and he has either K'd or popped up every time, never scoring that run! I simply cannot see why the M's continue to play this guy, especially with Broussard on the bench! How many more game do they think they can lose because of his pathetic performance? Nothing personal against Sexson... he's probably a really nice guy and all, he just is not getting it done! Please M's... bench or trade this guy now if you really expect to make the playoffs!
Jim G
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
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Broussard can't hit lefties, although this year in limited exposure to lefties he's doing well.
Those are the only reasons why I think Sexson is still playing every day.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
<< <i>Sexson is making 15.5 million this year--kind of hard to bench a guy making that much.
Broussard can't hit lefties, although this year in limited exposure to lefties he's doing well.
Those are the only reasons why I think Sexson is still playing every day. >>
Yeah, I'm sure that $15.5 mil is one of the reasons they won't bench him, but I don't think it's a valid one. I mean, you're on the hook for that money anyway, so why not give your self the best chance to make the playoffs by letting your best lineup play? I am with you on the LFP thing... I say they let Sexson hit against lefties and have Broussard in there againt RHP's. But, I guess that's a bit too logical for M's management
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
<< <i>I only see him when he plays against Boston. He killed the Sox...didn't he hit two homers one game? I wish he was benched too. >>
Well, you're almost right. He has 1 HR vs. the RedSox this year and is hitting an impressive 25 points higher against them than his overall average
Oh, and on a side note... Sexson has 69 hits season-to-date. Ichiro had 71 in April & May alone, and the M's only played 20 games in April due to 5-6 rain/snow-outs!
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
<< <i>
<< <i>I only see him when he plays against Boston. He killed the Sox...didn't he hit two homers one game? I wish he was benched too. >>
Well, you're almost right. He has 1 HR vs. the RedSox this year and is hitting an impressive 25 points higher against them than his overall average
Oh, and on a side note... Sexson has 69 hits season-to-date. Ichiro had 71 in April & May alone, and the M's only played 20 games in April due to 5-6 rain/snow-outs! >>
so the Sox can strike him out only about 1/3 the time? That's got to be below league average, no?
You can't put $13 million in salary on the bench. If you want to complain about anyone in the lineup, why aren't you killing Vidro? Why don't you explain why you would rather bench Sexson than Vidro. Vidro, the DH, has a grand total of THREE home runs this year, THREE. He hasn't missed time to injury, he's just god awful. And please, if you mention his batting average, I'm just gonna snap. DH's need to hit for power...I don't want a guy with a .290 BA and NO power as my DH. And TRADE Sexson? haha who would you trade him to? Who's going to want a guy currently batting .210 and a $13 million salary? Uhm nobody, perhaps?
So you can count 5 times in the season where he's come up with runner on third and less than 2 outs, and he's made an out. He's had runners on third a grand total of 12 times this year, gotten 2 hits and walked twice. Please quit being so melodramatic about Sexson. The guy's a proven hitter who's just having a bad year. I wonder if you were complaining about him last year when he was hitting 34 HRs and driving in 107 RBI.
What needs to happen for the M's to make a deep push to the playoffs is to relegate Vidro and his pathetic bat to the bench, make Ibanez (now a defensive liability in left) the DH, and bring up Adam Jones to play left. This is a move that should have happened months ago, but still hasn't. Jones has been ready for the bigs for a long time now.
One last thing...you do know that batting average is among the worst ways to determine a hitter's worth, don't you?
Vidro… well, yeah, the guy hasn’t shown much power, but he has come up with quite a few clutch hits in the first 4 months and is currently 2nd on the team with a .306 average (go ahead and snap by the way
Melodramtic? Are you kidding me? I’m simply talking numbers here and numbers don’t lie. Saying Sexson is god-aweful is not being melodramatic, it’s the simple truth, and nobody with half a brain would even attempt to deny this. I’m not sure what you mean by a “proven hitter”… yeah, Sexson had 2 good power years but he started off last year hitting for a pathetic average for the first half of the season. He managed to turn it on the last half after the Mariners were well out of the pennant race. But this year, it’s just not happening. And for the record, I was complaining about Sexson’s underperformance most of last year as well. The thing that kills me is that Sexson himself has said in the past that his job is to hit long balls, so he doesn’t really worry about a ton of K’s or a low average (although it’s obvious he is frustrated with how low his avg is this year). Guess what Rich… in a lot of situations, a simple liner for a single would have been enough to propel your team to a win. Shorten up that stroke a bit and try to be a team player and not just swing for the fences every time a-la Dave Kingman!
While I would also like to see Jones get a shot, your suggestion doesn’t make much sense based on your other statements about DH. You seem to think that the DH has to be a high power guy, but Ibanez only has 6 HR’s this year (at least he can blame injury for his off year). Plus, while Ibanez may not be the top LFer in the game, he is far from a liability. Did you see that game-saving catch he made in last night’s game?
So, batting avg is among the worst ways to value a hitter? Let me guess… HR’s are among the most important… right? You know, it actually takes a lot different stats to measure a player’s true worth. A mix of average, OBP, SLG, RBI, Runs, SB (especially SB%), situational stats like BA with RISP, late innings of close games, IBB, etc, and of course fielding %, range, assists, etc. Problem is Richie is horrible in most of these, being close to mediocre in some (like maybe HR, but even in that he’s on pace for only 26). His best attribute is probably snagging high throws at first, but that’s basically it. Not enough to keep him playing full time by a long-shot!
And I’ll end with a Richie update… tonight vs. the Angels… comes up in the first inning with the bases juiced… you guessed it, a fly out on the first pitch right after the last guy got walked on 5 pitches! Average now down to .200! Looks like I have a good shot at seeing him under the Mendoza line this week at Safeco when the Redsox visit. Let me predict right now… 1-for-12 in the series… 5 K’s… 10 runners left on base… Truly Pathetic!
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
<< <i>Uh… yeah… Broussard would be a much better choice than Sexson. Ideally, if they can’t get rid of Sexson, let him play vs lefties (hitting a whopping .241) and put Brousard in vs all RHP’s. Logically, this is a no-brainer, but sure… I suppose they won’t do it because of Sexson’s huge (and undeserved) contract. Still though, that doesn’t make it right. >>
What are you talking about? Why are you taking 3 months and using that over a career's worth of numbers? Look at his consistent power production, and tell me you'd rather have yet *another* contact hitter in there? Broussard's a great role player, but to say he's better than Sexson? That doesn't make much sense.
<< <i>Vidro… well, yeah, the guy hasn’t shown much power, but he has come up with quite a few clutch hits in the first 4 months and is currently 2nd on the team with a .306 average (go ahead and snap by the way
Good god...are you kidding? Vidro has a grand total of 18 (yes, eighteen) extra basehits this year...18! That's in 359 at bats! His slugging percentage? .370! He's slugging a measly .330 with RISP, while Sexson is slugging .454. Why do you insist on using BA as means to defend Vidro, a DH? There are a grand total of 11 guys in the league with a lower slugging percentage than Vidro.
<< <i>Melodramtic? Are you kidding me? I’m simply talking numbers here and numbers don’t lie. Saying Sexson is god-aweful is not being melodramatic, it’s the simple truth, and nobody with half a brain would even attempt to deny this. I’m not sure what you mean by a “proven hitter”… yeah, Sexson had 2 good power years but he started off last year hitting for a pathetic average for the first half of the season. He managed to turn it on the last half after the Mariners were well out of the pennant race. But this year, it’s just not happening. And for the record, I was complaining about Sexson’s underperformance most of last year as well. The thing that kills me is that Sexson himself has said in the past that his job is to hit long balls, so he doesn’t really worry about a ton of K’s or a low average (although it’s obvious he is frustrated with how low his avg is this year). Guess what Rich… in a lot of situations, a simple liner for a single would have been enough to propel your team to a win. Shorten up that stroke a bit and try to be a team player and not just swing for the fences every time a-la Dave Kingman! >>
Uhm, 2 good power years? What are you talking about? 45, 45, 39 and 34 HRs seem good power years to me. If you insist on using batting average to define hitters, his career batting average is .264. All players return to the mean. Putting Sexson and his power on the bench is the absolute LAST thing the Mariners need right now. You continue to harp on batting average when, again, its among the least effective ways to measure a batter's worth.
<< <i>While I would also like to see Jones get a shot, your suggestion doesn’t make much sense based on your other statements about DH. You seem to think that the DH has to be a high power guy, but Ibanez only has 6 HR’s this year (at least he can blame injury for his off year). Plus, while Ibanez may not be the top LFer in the game, he is far from a liability. Did you see that game-saving catch he made in last night’s game? >>
Ibanez's days as a quality fielder are done. He's had back issues and he is indeed a defensive liability. Instead of looking at one catch, try looking at how much ground Ichiro has to cover in center because Ibanez is so limited. Ichiro has had to turn into Kelly Leak out there in Center because Ibanez simply cannot cover territory. And wait, you're telling that Ibanez, with 6 home runs, and total of 34 extra base hits wouldn't be an upgrade at DH over Vidro? Wait, let me guess, because Ibanez has a lower batting average, right? Let me tell you something: a DH's job is to hit for power. It's not to dink and dunk singles (which is ALL vidro does). 85% of Vidro's hits this year have been SINGLES. That's not helping the team as a DH, it's hurting them. Of the 7 qualified DH's, Vidro is dead last in slugging, and it's not even close....Vidro's .372 is 60 points behind Frank Thomas.
<< <i>So, batting avg is among the worst ways to value a hitter? Let me guess… HR’s are among the most important… right? You know, it actually takes a lot different stats to measure a player’s true worth. A mix of average, OBP, SLG, RBI, Runs, SB (especially SB%), situational stats like BA with RISP, late innings of close games, IBB, etc, and of course fielding %, range, assists, etc. Problem is Richie is horrible in most of these, being close to mediocre in some (like maybe HR, but even in that he’s on pace for only 26). His best attribute is probably snagging high throws at first, but that’s basically it. Not enough to keep him playing full time by a long-shot! >>
I don't recall saying HRs were the most important, did I? But when you are evaluating a power guy (namely guys like Sexson and Vidro), SLG and OPS are much better evaluators. Batting average tells you nothing of a hitters worth....runs scored is dependent on the guys behind you hitting, and RBI is dependent on the guys in front of you hitting...so neither of those are worthwhile either. Stolen bases? Huh, why would I care how many stolen bases my power guys like Sexson and my DH Have? Situational stats? You mean ones where they'll have about 30- at bats all year? Worthless too.
<< <i>And I’ll end with a Richie update… tonight vs. the Angels… comes up in the first inning with the bases juiced… you guessed it, a fly out on the first pitch right after the last guy got walked on 5 pitches! Average now down to .200! Looks like I have a good shot at seeing him under the Mendoza line this week at Safeco when the Redsox visit. Let me predict right now… 1-for-12 in the series… 5 K’s… 10 runners left on base… Truly Pathetic! >>
I will leave you with this, since you want to mention what a 'clutch' hitter Vidro is. Vidro has grounded into nearly as many double plays (15) as extra base hits (18). Sexson? 8 GIDP vs. 34 XBH.
1) During a stretch of games, batter A comes up to bat 30 times with runners in scoring position. He fails to get any extra base hits during this time, but produces 9 singles, which results in 16 RBI for his club.
2) During a stretch of games, batter B comes up to bat 30 times with runners in scoring position. He strikes out 10 times, and pops out 4 times with runners on 3rd and less than 2 outs, but does manage to hit 1 HR, 2 doubles, and 3 singles, plating 12 runs for his team.
This may be just a preference thing... you'd rather have player B and I would rather have player A. Frankly, Sexson's pathetic avg is only part of the problem with him. The guy cannot get a clutch hit... maybe 2-3 all year and that's being generous! I agree that Vidro's Slg% is really bad at .372. But hell, Sexson's is only .397, and he is supposed to be the team's big bad slugger!
And oh, btw, your own words state that SLG & OPS are 2 of the most important stats. Vidro OPS = .741, Sexson OPS = .698... case closed!
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
<< <i>case closed! >>
Yeah, good luck with that
Gullien is a cancer.
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi
In regards to Sexson, it's clear that you, Ichirofan, will never allow Sexson any amount of leeway. I wonder if you were on the hate bandwagon last year when he was crushing the ball. And that you'd rather have a guy who has (by far) the worst slugging percentage in the league as your DH. Last time I checked, the DHs job was to hit for some power and aid rallies, not kill them.
Vidro is, hands down, the WORST DH in the league. Why you're slurping this guy because his batting average is over .300 is beyond me. Its clear to anyone with any analytical skills that Vidro should be riding pine when Jones comes up. Hell, sit both Ibanez and Vidro and get Wladmir and Jones up out of Tacoma.
Your continued insistence that BA is a quality way to judge a batter, let alone a slugger like the DH is supposed to be, is curious to no end. Why you feel the need to rail on Sexson is curious. Your continued inability to rationalize sitting a slugger like Sexson, who has a proven track record of hitting for power, and propping up a guy like Vidro, who has proven all year that he has no business starting, let along starting at DH, shows me you have no idea what a good hitter means.
Anyways, this conversation is done. You want to insist that Vidro is worth having in the lineup (when all worthwhile measures say he's not), and you want to insist that Broussard over Sexson is a better option at first. Neither of those are accurate, and you cannot open yourself to objective statistical analysis that shows otherwise.
I'm done with you.
I was on the Sexson hate wagon last year... and the time he started "crushing the ball", the M's were out of it, which basically meant nothing. He did absolutely nothing when it counted and I was criticizing him for it!
"And that you'd rather have a guy who has (by far) the worst slugging percentage in the league as your DH. Last time I checked, the DHs job was to hit for some power and aid rallies, not kill them."
Sexson is the only "rally-killer" on the Mariners!
"Vidro is, hands down, the WORST DH in the league. Why you're slurping this guy because his batting average is over .300 is beyond me. Its clear to anyone with any analytical skills that Vidro should be riding pine when Jones comes up. Hell, sit both Ibanez and Vidro and get Wladmir and Jones up out of Tacoma."
Dude, don't even talk to me about analytical skills. The stats don't lie, and if you'd stop drinking your power-happy cool-aide, you might understand that!
"Your continued insistence that BA is a quality way to judge a batter, let alone a slugger like the DH is supposed to be, is curious to no end. Why you feel the need to rail on Sexson is curious. Your continued inability to rationalize sitting a slugger like Sexson, who has a proven track record of hitting for power, and propping up a guy like Vidro, who has proven all year that he has no business starting, let along starting at DH, shows me you have no idea what a good hitter means."
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? You're supporting starting a .200 hitter while advocating the benching a .306 hitter. And before you go off on a tantrum about BA again, as I said before, Vidro's SLG% is only slightly below your man Sexson's and his OPS is actually quite a bit higher than Sexson's. So, how exactly to you justify your stance on that Mr. Analytics? Hmmmm?
Ahhh yes, looks like your boy is on the bench tonight and Broussard is in. Forget what I said about Sexson's denfense being the only thing better than Broussard. Ben just save at least 1 run in the first inning tonight... snagged an errant throw by Yuni and robbed Mathews of a sure double down the RF line! So, you can put that in your pipe and smoke it, lol!
All-time favorite athletes:
Steve Sax, Steve Garvey, Larry Bird, Jerry Rice, Joe Montana, Andre Agassi, Karch Kiraly, Wayne Gretzky, Ichiro Suzuki, Andres Galarraga, Greg Maddux.
"Make the world a better place... punch both A-Rods in the face (Alex Rodriguez and Andy Roddick)!"
Get him out of the field and into the DH spot immediately!
Where's ichirofan been hiding at? Haven't seen him since this mindless tirade of his.
Dave
I hope McLaren is smart enough to utilize this combination the rest of the way.
Riding the pine a bit seems to have helped. Boy, he's one streaky hitter.
If he gets rolling, look out. M's are hitting the ball HARD, 1-9. I just wish they had a tad more starting pitching. At least the bull pen is rock solid. If they can get the lead in the 7th, game over --- man, where is all this heading?
Damn those Yankees!
Dave
Should be fun to watch either way and lets hope the Yankees get cold so the loser of our division can take the wild card
"If I ever decided to do a book, I've already got the title-The Bases Were Loaded and So Was I"-Jim Fregosi