Rant - John B. Hamrick & Co. - UPDATED 5/23!
Preussen
Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭
I recently took the “buy it now” option on this auction. Seller’s terms clearly indicate FREE insured shipping, but when the ebay invoice arrived, there was a $10 shipping charge included and the bold type: "THERE IS A $10 SHIPPING CHARGE FOR THIS ITEM."
Thinking this was probably an oversight, I sent a friendly note to the seller, saying I was pleased to have won the item, but there seemed to be a problem with his invoice because it added $10. Seller replied with a curt “WE NEVER OFFER FREE SHIPPING.” When I said “yes, clearly you did,” he replied “JUST DON’T BUY IT.”
We exchanged a few emails, and seller continued to deny that he had ever offered free shipping, although it is clearly stated in this and also in several other of his auctions at the time. He refused to honor his terms and finally blamed it on a glitch in his listing software (although he made no effort to cancel or correct the other listings).
My final correspondence with him was to say that as a PNG dealer, I felt the honorable thing for him to do was to honor his terms and correct the other listings if they were in fact mistakes. He did neither.
I hadn’t paid anything, therefore hadn’t lost anything, but Mr. Hamrick’s attitude bothered me so I decided not to let it rest so easily. I emailed the ebay “powerseller” team, and after a couple of days I received an email saying that although their action could not be disclosed, I should rest assured that “appropriate action” had been taken. The other listings with “free” shipping remained until they closed.
I also emailed the PNG to report Mr. Hamrick’s violation of the PNG Code of Ethics (misrepresenting the price) and his generally lousy and unprofessional attitude. They never even bothered to respond to my email, so my perception of the PNG is also in the crapper.
Yes, it was only a $50 coin and I suffered nothing but frustration, but I felt it was worth a rant here. Thanks, I feel better
-Preussen
Thinking this was probably an oversight, I sent a friendly note to the seller, saying I was pleased to have won the item, but there seemed to be a problem with his invoice because it added $10. Seller replied with a curt “WE NEVER OFFER FREE SHIPPING.” When I said “yes, clearly you did,” he replied “JUST DON’T BUY IT.”
We exchanged a few emails, and seller continued to deny that he had ever offered free shipping, although it is clearly stated in this and also in several other of his auctions at the time. He refused to honor his terms and finally blamed it on a glitch in his listing software (although he made no effort to cancel or correct the other listings).
My final correspondence with him was to say that as a PNG dealer, I felt the honorable thing for him to do was to honor his terms and correct the other listings if they were in fact mistakes. He did neither.
I hadn’t paid anything, therefore hadn’t lost anything, but Mr. Hamrick’s attitude bothered me so I decided not to let it rest so easily. I emailed the ebay “powerseller” team, and after a couple of days I received an email saying that although their action could not be disclosed, I should rest assured that “appropriate action” had been taken. The other listings with “free” shipping remained until they closed.
I also emailed the PNG to report Mr. Hamrick’s violation of the PNG Code of Ethics (misrepresenting the price) and his generally lousy and unprofessional attitude. They never even bothered to respond to my email, so my perception of the PNG is also in the crapper.
Yes, it was only a $50 coin and I suffered nothing but frustration, but I felt it was worth a rant here. Thanks, I feel better
-Preussen "Illegitimis non carborundum" -General Joseph Stilwell. See my auctions
0
Comments
<< <i>Yes, it was only a $50 coin and I suffered nothing but frustration, but I felt it was worth a rant here. >>
I wish every eBay seller's business ethics would be learns as cheaply. You did the right thing and I, for one, will make sure to add the seller to my black list.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Good job.
myEbay
DPOTD 3
<< <i>I've contacted the seller and he told me that he'll definetely leave you negative feedback that will be posted any day now.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I considered leaving him a negative; I probably should have, but I decided to just let it go. -Preussen
This is clearly seller non-performance and is a basis to dispute the transaction with eBay.
In addition, any negative left by the seller as a result of this dispute may surely be removed.
You need to lodge a formal complaint with eBay for seller non-performance, IMHO.
Edited: Oops, I see you already did this - you will win this case, in the end.
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>
<< <i>I've contacted the seller and he told me that he'll definetely leave you negative feedback that will be posted any day now.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I considered leaving him a negative; I probably should have, but I decided to just let it go. -Preussen >>
His failure to honor deals will continue with people like you failing to warn others. Very poor decision on your part.
I can only hope that John and Lori are made aware and correct what is probably an honest mistake.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I've contacted the seller and he told me that he'll definetely leave you negative feedback that will be posted any day now.
It wouldn't surprise me a bit. I considered leaving him a negative; I probably should have, but I decided to just let it go. -Preussen >>
His failure to honor deals will continue with people like you failing to warn others. Very poor decision on your part. >>
You are welcome to your opinion. -Preussen
<< <i>..... I can only hope that John and Lori are made aware and correct what is probably an honest mistake. >>
I could show you about 6 curt / rude emails from the seller that will attest to the “honesty of the mistake.”
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
And to think that last week an eBay bidder contacted me because he was concerned that my shipping charge wouldn't cover all the USPS fees.
I told him to fuggitaboutit. Uncle Sam takes 1/3 of the hit for any extra expenses.........of course, he takes 1/3 of the profits, too.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!! Think I'll have a bowl of caramel
I bought a coin from him a few years back, which was actually one of my favorites, and a former avatar of mine:
It was a $900 coin, as I recall.
Nothing about Hamrick sticks out in my memory; it must have been one of those faceless, automatic transactions where I paid with PayPal and got a coin- no real communication involved. I didn't detect an aura of warmth and friendliness, nor did I have a bad experience. It was neutral. (What a TRUE neutral feedback should be, not something with a negative connotation.)
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media" - William Colby, former CIA director
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
Rick
Edited to fix link...
1836 Capped Liberty
dime. My oldest US
detecting find so far.
I dig almost every
signal I get for the most
part. Go figure...
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Long story short I won a dumb toy auction (we're talking my winning bid of a couple dollars vs the 10 or 20 he eventually got) and the guy chose not to honor the winning bid. To his credit he did refund my papal so fast my head was spinnning, but at first no communication at all.
The guy thought he was jerking around a newbie as I was using my throwaway account so I guess he was suprised when my complaint to ebay hit.
If it makes you feel any better I think ebay really did threaten him a bit because a couple days later I got a really detailed letter explaining their listing error. Honestly if he'd just sent that in the first place I would have let him off the hook and maybe even bin'd his auction at the new price.
Instead he has a very lengthy neutral (it was a mistake, not a rip-off and he eventually came clean) that if he looks at it may make him wonder how I squeezed all that commentary in
For pure catharsis (or is that vindictiveness???) I highly recommend the long feedback! I'm not sure about the last day thing..I accidently did it after 60 and not 90 but the guy never responded. Either took his lumps like a grownup or maybe because I complained officially he wasn't able to.
I would recommend a neutral so others know to double check his shipping. I like reading them so I can look to where the problem was so I can identify if it still is one or relates to what I'm bidding on. I have yet to do a negative, to me that is a flat out rip off or absolutely abusive practices.
Thank you for sharing the situation
Were the emails directly from John or Lori, or were they from someone working for them (i.e. a new hire doing eBay)? Unbelievable in any case.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Lou
ANA Life-Member
<< <i>Were the emails directly from John or Lori, or were they from someone working for them (i.e. a new hire doing eBay)? Unbelievable in any case. >>
All of the emails were "unsigned," so I don't know what individual authored them, but the sending email ID was "John B. Hamrick"
Here is some of what I received on 5/1 after I did the BIN:
My question upon receiving the ebay invoice requiring $10 for shipping: Hello: I'm glad to have won this item, but there seems to be a problem with your invoice. Your auction states free shipping in the USA. Please send a corrected invoice. Thanks, Steve
Reply from John B. Hamrick We do not have free shipping anywhere.
My reply: Please read your own auction, top and bottom. It clearly states FREE shipping, with insurance included. Please confirm that you will honor your clearly stated terms. Steve
Reply from John B. Hamrick THAT IS INCORRECT. WE HAVE NEVER OFFERED FREE SHIPPING. Follow-up reply from John B. Hamrick: JUST DON'T BUY IT.
On 5/3 I asked: Hello: Do you agree to complete our transaction per the stated auction terms
of $50 delivered? Please confirm and I will make payment. war-buff
Reply from John B. Hamrick: No you may cancel the order if you wish. We can not pay the shipping. This
was a computer generated error because of switching from SAP Pro to
Blackthorne for listing purposes.
My final (unanswered) comment to John B. Hamrick: Hello:
I decline to pay shipping on an item that was clearly offered with free
shipping. My decision to buy the item was based on the stated terms. If you
decline to complete the transaction per the stated terms I cannot force you to
do so, but I feel that your response is inappropriate and unprofessional,
especially from a PNG member. As of a few moments ago, all six of your current
listings clearly offer FREE shipping, and all are subject to "buy it now."
It's just my opinion, but it seems to me the responsible thing to do is to
honor your stated terms, and correct your other listings if they are erroneous.
Regards,
war-buff
-Preussen
Wow. That's insane. I would call Hamrick and ask them who wrote the emails. Someone needs to be fired.
<< <i>Someone needs to be fired. >>
Perhaps the boss
My World Coin Type Set
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
thanks for sharing this Steve!
<< <i>Shocking to hear that an established seller would behave this way, especially for $10! I think you did the right thing. >>
yeah, and $10 for a $50 coin sounds like high shipping fees anyway!
It is ALWAYS someone else's fault.
If someone finds an error immediately (say, you hit BIN within minutes and they were in the process of reviewing) then I could understand the error.
However, I go through any selling auction I do in the ebay selling system, then view it a couple of times as a real auction. I have caught my own mistakes (thinking something but typing another) after the auction posted but prior to any bid...and changed the auction.
I have also forgotten to put anything about insurance and so offered free insurance (I lost about $10 on that item for s/h/i). It was my mistake and so I owned up to it. I am not a business. I do not get many repeat buyers solely because I sell so infrequently. If I were a business, I would be more determined not to make mistakes and, if I did, then I would cover them so I would garner repeat business.
If this John Hamrick is indeed the one doing the emails he is, imho, a fool. A fool who I would not deal with.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
My conclusion, whether fair or not, is that this is someone who would never give me a break, no matter how small, in any transaction. As a result, this is a seller with whom I will not do business.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media" - William Colby, former CIA director
Thanks for the warning to the rest of us here, though.
<< <i>man, i'm glad to hear this! I was thinking about doing a BIN for a German coin they have. after reading this, i'll certainly stay away from these buffoons!
thanks for sharing this Steve! >>
I was actually browsing a few of his items last week and almost did the BIN, I am glad I didn't
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Young Numismatist ............................ and growing!
<< <i>This item shows shipping as Free.
Is that correct?
I am asking because the comments at http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=586732 state that you told another buyer you never give free shipping and sent him insulting emails when he insisted on receiving free shipping for an item that - like this one - offered free shipping.
What's the story? >>
To date, no response, and no defensive appearance in this thread.
Draw your own conclusions. I drew mine and he sure didn't make my "Favorite Seller" list!
>>>>>>>>>No you may cancel the order if you wish. We can not pay the shipping. This
was a computer generated error because of switching from SAP Pro to
Blackthorne for listing purposes.>>>>>>>
The software just came up with the statement on its own?
I posted this "hypothetical" on the US Coin forum awhile back. I debated about outing the seller but this seems to be a pattern. Poor customer service is fantastic way to pile drive your business.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>I am still amazed that this dealer would be willing, or not care, to get all this bad publicity for $3. >>
It strongly suggests that there is no concern for the customer nor any interest in making sure that the customer is happy. In other words, a seller to avoid.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media" - William Colby, former CIA director
My name is Devin Hipp, and I have been a numismatist for the past ten years and an employee for John Hamrick and Co. for the past month. This past weekend, a colleague of mine alerted me to a pair threads on the Message Boards about an incident on eBay where shipping was not listed on a particular item and then was tacked on after the sale of coins totaling $50.
Our eBay business lately has been a combined effort of John, Lori, and me the past few weeks. We run a tight operation here trying to keep overhead low, and sometimes things such as shipping can fall through the cracks. That is what happened on this case.
As someone pointed out earlier, “you cannot blame technology for everything” and I would agree with that. I have had my share of bad eBay and dealer experiences where I came out of transactions with an uneasy feeling about the whole process. We all make mistakes and have to adapt to the learning curve of technology every once and a while. Because we are in a transition from one eBay software to another right now, this instance with shipping has fallen through the cracks. However, we are rectifying the situation right now and making sure that all eBay listings are as accurate as possible.
I would like each and every one of you to know that I will personally be overseeing the correspondence with eBayers from now on regarding sales of items through that website. We have already had one other incident regarding a listing on eBay, and this most recent development about shipping of another has prompted me to take a personal initiative on behalf of the company. If you have any questions about eBay items or business, please feel free to contact me at devinhipp@gmail.com, or you can make a call into the office at (678) 319-3005.
As you can see, I would personally like to handle this business on behalf of John and Lori. It was an honest mistake that I should have caught, and I ask that you give us understanding regarding this matter. Again, if you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
My years in the business have taught me to deal with reputable dealers, and I would like to personally maintain the integrity and honesty that John has worked for 40 years to instill. If you have some time at the next coin show that we are in attendance to, please stop by the table and say hello. I would love to meet you and put a face with a name for the people that we do business with.
Devin Hipp
John Hamrick & Co.
<< <i>Ladies and gentleman of the PCGS Message Boards,
My name is Devin Hipp, and I have been a numismatist for the past ten years and an employee for John Hamrick and Co. for the past month. This past weekend, a colleague of mine alerted me to a pair threads on the Message Boards about an incident on eBay where shipping was not listed on a particular item and then was tacked on after the sale of coins totaling $50.
Our eBay business lately has been a combined effort of John, Lori, and me the past few weeks. We run a tight operation here trying to keep overhead low, and sometimes things such as shipping can fall through the cracks. That is what happened on this case.
As someone pointed out earlier, “you cannot blame technology for everything” and I would agree with that. I have had my share of bad eBay and dealer experiences where I came out of transactions with an uneasy feeling about the whole process. We all make mistakes and have to adapt to the learning curve of technology every once and a while. Because we are in a transition from one eBay software to another right now, this instance with shipping has fallen through the cracks. However, we are rectifying the situation right now and making sure that all eBay listings are as accurate as possible.
I would like each and every one of you to know that I will personally be overseeing the correspondence with eBayers from now on regarding sales of items through that website. We have already had one other incident regarding a listing on eBay, and this most recent development about shipping of another has prompted me to take a personal initiative on behalf of the company. If you have any questions about eBay items or business, please feel free to contact me at devinhipp@gmail.com, or you can make a call into the office at (678) 319-3005.
As you can see, I would personally like to handle this business on behalf of John and Lori. It was an honest mistake that I should have caught, and I ask that you give us understanding regarding this matter. Again, if you have any questions or concerns, please contact me.
My years in the business have taught me to deal with reputable dealers, and I would like to personally maintain the integrity and honesty that John has worked for 40 years to instill. If you have some time at the next coin show that we are in attendance to, please stop by the table and say hello. I would love to meet you and put a face with a name for the people that we do business with.
Devin Hipp
John Hamrick & Co. >>
Good post, and welcome Devin.
Let's see how it is handled with Preussen (the original poster) or, is it already too late for that?
Best wishes
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>However, we are rectifying the situation right now and making sure that all eBay listings are as accurate as possible. >>
I for one would be interested in a specific assurance that if by any chance the same "mistake" occurs on a listing, that the offer of free shipping will be honored; and that if there are any other "mistakes" that are not corrected before someone bids either the bid(s) will be canceled and the auction terminated, or the published offer will be honored.
It says something about a company when it requires public criticism to elicit a civil response. The poor feedback John Hamrick & Co. has received on Ebay tells the type of company it is. Take a look at some and see if you see patterns.......
BAD SELLER! WHIZZED COINS! POLISHED COINS! NOT AS DESCRIBED! BUYER BEWARE! SCAM!
Refused to sell coin after BUY IT NOW deceptive business practices chk his feedb
This guy is mean; read all of his fine print. Ad was deceptive in my opinion.
Won item, seller says not available, complaint filed with eBay!
Seller has a 5 day return . I used that option. He gives negative. JERK !!
I bid & won. After excuses were made was told it was a 'mistake' & returned my $
Deal Called Off - Lost Coin
Mr.Scrooge is trying to make a few bucks on delivery selling $4,000 coins.
Done! but never again. Too slow overcharged shipping, poor service!
Nice coin. However, poor communications.
SLOW and unfriendly to respond and deliver! Not customer friendly. Too Slow.
Not much good to say here, after almost 2 months got my money back never again!
PURCHASED COIN,SELLER SOLD SAME COIN AT COIN SHOW, NOT A GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE.
1. a "software mistake" caused your abnormally high shipping cost (in relation to a $50 dollar coin) to be left off
2. not only did you not do the honest thing by honoring the auction agreement and eat the cost, the emailer to Steve was quite rude! if you're company is that small, it
shouldn't take long to ascertain who the rude party was.
3. you ramble on about honest dealers, but you make no mention to make this up to Steve, who started the thread!
4. you re-list the coin for sale, back at the abnormally high shipping rate of $10 for a $40 coin.
all in all, I think your attempt to clean up this mess will fall on deaf ears.
<< <i>This past weekend, a colleague of mine alerted me to a pair threads on the Message Boards about an incident on eBay where shipping was not listed on a particular item and then was tacked on after the sale of coins totaling $50. >>
The shipping was very clearly stated, it is stated FREE in bold type in the upper half of the auction and again as FREE in all CAPITOL letters though nothing else is in all caps... I paid the $8.00 shipping against my better judgement. You may take advantage of me once but not twice. I will not be purchasing any other items with practices such as these. This is the link to the auction. I appreciate your taking the time to reply here but I don't see any offers of making ammends.
Sincerely,
Rick
1836 Capped Liberty
dime. My oldest US
detecting find so far.
I dig almost every
signal I get for the most
part. Go figure...
<< <i>A good business will accept + learn from their mistakes. John Hamrick & Co. has not accepted their mistakes yet. The coin needs to be sent to Prussian for $50. The shipping and handling fee of $10 for this coin is a ripoff.
It says something about a company when it requires public criticism to elicit a civil response. The poor feedback John Hamrick & Co. has received on Ebay tells the type of company it is. Take a look at some and see if you see patterns.......
BAD SELLER! WHIZZED COINS! POLISHED COINS! NOT AS DESCRIBED! BUYER BEWARE! SCAM!
Refused to sell coin after BUY IT NOW deceptive business practices chk his feedb
This guy is mean; read all of his fine print. Ad was deceptive in my opinion.
Won item, seller says not available, complaint filed with eBay!
Seller has a 5 day return . I used that option. He gives negative. JERK !!
I bid & won. After excuses were made was told it was a 'mistake' & returned my $
Deal Called Off - Lost Coin
Mr.Scrooge is trying to make a few bucks on delivery selling $4,000 coins.
Done! but never again. Too slow overcharged shipping, poor service!
Nice coin. However, poor communications.
SLOW and unfriendly to respond and deliver! Not customer friendly. Too Slow.
Not much good to say here, after almost 2 months got my money back never again!
PURCHASED COIN,SELLER SOLD SAME COIN AT COIN SHOW, NOT A GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICE. >>
Interesting. Anyone who takes the time to research that first listed feedback will learn the real deal
quickly... hint - check out the US forum for threads about this "buyer".
In addition, the ones about auction ended but transaction not completed (lost, sold at show, etc.) -
this is a common problem. Bottom line is that no seller is required to sell to a buyer on eBay, ever.
This has been discussed on this forum extensively - if you do not believe it, contact eBay customer
service, they will tell you that there is nothing you can do except leave a negative. You can give your
opinion about it being a legal contract, blah, blah, blah, but I have not heard of court cases for the
sale of $50 coins, have you?
Not exactly my cup of tea (subject to prior sale auctions) but many dealers, especially ancients dealers,
feel it is their choice to sell, or not.
My personal opinion is that unless it is unusual circumstances, a negative is well deserved for such
behavior, unless this is clearly written (i.e., subject to prior sale) into terms and conditions...
My point has nothing much to do with this thread, but I thought it should be pointed out...
John
SFC, US Army (Ret.) 1974-1994
<< <i>Ladies and gentleman of the PCGS Message Boards,
My name is Devin Hipp, and I have been a numismatist for the past ten years and an employee for John Hamrick and Co. for the past month.
blah blah blah blah blah...
>>
Ok, I'll bite: How about an apology to the OP, not only for the error, but for the horrendously RUDE behavior exhibited towards him by "someone" at your company?
Your nonapology apology has all the sincerity of a convicted felon's remorse at sentencing: it rings hollow and false. The only reason we're hearing it is because you got caught.
Instead of blaming the software and making a bland press release chock full of plattitudes, how about something along the lines of "We never should have sent the responses to the buyer we did; that was inexcusable and we apologize. I invite the buyer to contact us to see what we can do to compensate him for the poor customer service and retain his business."
How about sending the coin in question (since you still own it) to the OP under the original terms THAT YOU AGREED TO in your auction text?
Right now you're not doing yourself any favors, just digging a deeper hole.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>
<< <i>Ladies and gentleman of the PCGS Message Boards,
My name is Devin Hipp, and I have been a numismatist for the past ten years and an employee for John Hamrick and Co. for the past month.
blah blah blah blah blah...
>>
Ok, I'll bite: How about an apology to the OP, not only for the error, but for the horrendously RUDE behavior exhibited towards him by "someone" at your company?
Your nonapology apology has all the sincerity of a convicted felon's remorse at sentencing: it rings hollow and false. The only reason we're hearing it is because you got caught.
Instead of blaming the software and making a bland press release chock full of plattitudes, how about something along the lines of "We never should have sent the responses to the buyer we did; that was inexcusable and we apologize. I invite the buyer to contact us to see what we can do to compensate him for the poor customer service and retain his business."
How about sending the coin in question (since you still own it) to the OP under the original terms THAT YOU AGREED TO in your auction text?
Right now you're not doing yourself any favors, just digging a deeper hole. >>
Well Said.....
Hamrick should have honored the listing. It was not worth the bad publicity and poor customer relations for a few dollars. The rest of the listings should have immediately changed to list their shipping charges.
That said, I did not find the responses to the OP'er particularly rude. They were curt, and no apology was offered. A simple apology goes a long way - even if the seller will not budge on the listing. The seller did offer to cancel the order, but he should have also apologized for the listing error.
I have never dealt with John B. Hamrick & Co., but they have been around for a very long time and have fairly good reputation. They probably should not have entered the e-Bay market until they had their technology in order.
Juts my two cents - this seems to be dragging on too long for what should have been handled quickly and amicably. Hopefully John B. Hamrick & Co. will just make it right - and move on.