Received: 1902 Edward VII British Crown - ANACS PF-62 (Matte Proof) -- New Photos

Stuart

Please vote in the poll to guess the grade of this Edward VII British Crown.

I'd also appreciate if you'd post your grading observations and any other comments about this coin to keep the thread informative, lively and active.

ozzysdad47

I voted Proof 63, Actually it has a Matte Proof in appearence, But sometime's scan's and pic's don't do near the justice of having the privilige of seeing the coin in hand.


Anyway, JMO.......... Love the coin......... As "Keets" would probably reinterate the fact....


" BUY THE COIN, NOT THE HOLDER"

DesertRat

Hard to tell from the pics but I voted Proof 64

drjules

I went proof 64 too

Hussulo

I'll go proof 64 too.

coinkat

I am not wild about the image and in light of that fact, PF63 seems reasonable. I am sure the coin looks better in hand

Aethelred

I voted Proof 64.

Daltonista

Probably because I haven't handled enough of them, but I've always found matte proofs the hardest of coins to grade...and to photograph.

Went with 63 on this lovely coin.

spoon

I'll echo coinkat's disclaimer, but I'll say MS63.

Looks like a good strike, good hair details, etc.

So, my final evaluation: worthy of a place in my collection regardless of grade

Stuart

Thanks to all for your very interesting comments and grading poll results so far. I'll let the suspense continue through today for others who may wish to participate, and will post the actual grade this evening for further discussion.

I'll also take some higher resolution digital photos of this coin, which I will post on this forum after receiving this new purchase, which I am very anxious to examine in person!!

farthing

I voted for Proof 62. PCGS can be hard on these, even with the nice ear and hair detail.

Stuart

<< PCGS can be hard on these, even with the nice ear and hair detail. >>

Farthing: FYI, this coin was not certified by PCGS.

ajaan

ICG PF62

koincollect

I also voted PF62 due to no luster on the coin. If there indeed is some luster then I would go for PF63.

trozau

Edward VII 1902 proof issues are matte finish. I WAG'd PF64.

Stuart

This 1902 Edward VII British Crown is graded ANACS PF-62 (Matte Proof).

Thanks to all who voted in the poll and who took the time to post their grading observations and comments about this coin, which is the very first Matte Proof in my collection.



With 30 votes cast, here is the forum's final grading distribution:

Proof 65 or Higher :-) - 0 (votes) 0.00 (%)
MS-65 or Higher :-) - 1 (vote) 3.33 (%)
Proof 64 - 12 (votes) 40.00 (%)
MS-64 - 2 (votes) 6.67 (%)
Proof 63 - 4 (votes) 13.33 (%)
MS-63 - 3 (votes) 10.00 (%)
Proof 62 - 6 (votes) 20.00 (%)
MS-62 - 2 (votes) 6.67 (%)

Rickc300

I voted PF-62 just because there appears to be some rubbing or handling of the coin in the fields and around the date. Then I "Smurfed" it (inverted the colors) on the photo to see what it looked like that way (I now do this to all coins claiming to be UNC on eBay after last weeks fiasco)! Since I am not familiar with this series or matte proofs in general, this is just a WAG on my part!
Rick

Here is what it looks like with the colors inverted...

Edited to say, DANG IT! you posted while I was uploading the smurfed photos! Stupid dial up!

clarkbar04

Man, I was way off - not even going to say what I voted.

ozzysdad47

Hey, I did good, I was only off by one point and I made the call for Matte Proof, And truth be known, I bet you could crack it out and it would very possibly grade 63 or higher, It's a beauty........ Nice addition to any collection.

crito

I assumed lack of luster was due to scan. Otherwise looked proof 64 to me too.

SYRACUSIAN

I voted MS62, I know how hard TPGs are on these. Well, glad to hear that it is a proof. I'll soon have to grade mine for resale purposes, no idea what it will do:

cosmicdebris

I miss mine

7Jaguars

Yes, the grading services seem to not have a clear approach to grading these matte coins, gold included. I have become a bit pessimistic about who gets what grade on their coins. In other words, connections on these coins may help.

Cruzi

Think the main trouble the TPG's have with the 1902 Matte Proofs is not knowing the finish or how it was made.

In the case of the 1902 Matte proofs, these coins were pickled after striking to make the matt finish.





<< <i>The 1902 Matte Proofs were made using a process developed in the 1890's in Belgium. The coins are pickled or etched in diluted acid after being struck to achieve a dull finely granulated surface. This was replaced later by sandblasting the coins, both finishes proved to be unpopular with collectors. >>




Edited to add info.

7Jaguars

It is my understanding that matte proofs are actually primarily created with die preparation, that the dies are sandblasted with a variety of substances and then the planchets may also be treated pre-strike in a like fashion or with various methods of "pickling". Graham Dyer (if you can reach him) would likely confirm as much.

Unfortunately with regards to the 1902 issue, it is recorded that mint workers wiped individual specimens down with cloth and so many are seen with hairlines just as this specimen has.

I have also seen on a personal note, having multiple specimens of each silver and gold denomination that some of the "hairlines" are in RELIEF and most likely due to wiping or preparation of the dies as well. Many times the grading services seem not to give the individual coin the time to distinguish between true hairlines and those due to die prep. and so there are discrepencies in grading numbers.

coinkat

Excellent comments with respect to the die prep and reasons for the range in grades. I also think it is difficult to account for the subjective component associated with grading in general and how that varies with repect to this issue.

Cruzi

Preparing the dies for matt finishes came later, this is why 1902 coins are so difficult to get high grades on.

7Jaguars

I would still state that to the best of our knowledge the matte appearance of the '02 issues is primarily due to die preparation although blank preparation seems to not be as well documented.

These coins are definately not matte by virtue of post strike treatment, though the point was broached that they were wiped by mint personnel.

Cruzi

Trying to find the dang article........

7Jaguars

Yes, that would be good. I have talked to a couple of others who seem not to be able to give details. The only direct reference was evidently from an old mint worker who recalled wiping the individual coins. It may remain something of a mystery as to how the dies were specifically prepared; I do recall the US mint experimenting with how to give matte versus satin finish in the early decades of this century.

Stuart

I am delighted after having received this beautiful very photogenic coin, which appears (to me) to be very conservatively graded by ANACS.

Here are some new photos that I took (in natural sunlight) after receiving it, so that you may judge for yourselves. -- I am very pleased with how well they turned out.

1902 Edward VII British Crown - ANACS PF-62 (Matte Proof) - Mintage 15,000

coinkat

nice images and a PR63 seems appropriate... more appropriate than 62. The Matte Proofs have fine workmanship in the hair... I like the issue.

Stuart

Thanks to all who have taken the time to post their comments and observations about this interesting 1902 Edward VII British Crown in this thread.

As this is the first matte proof coin of any country or denomination that I have owned, I am learning a lot about this specific issue and also the matte proof planchet preparation and minting process.

BS

Very nice. Your photos are much better.