Needing "too much" help??
MuckyMutt
Posts: 803
Just catching up on the recent threads this morning, and I noticed one that is asking for "help". I don't know why, but it really got me to thinking. I am sure this could pose a common ethical dilemma for anyone who collects.
Here's the situation:
Someone who knows nothing about cards or collecting has some cards and wonders what they are "worth". It seems to me the "worth" is more than just the intrinsic value of the item. So much has to do with your knowledge of the hobby. Knowledge which takes years to accumulate. So this person, let's call him nooby, has a card that has a "value" of $100 because one just like it sold on Ebay for $100. Telling that person that it is "worth" $100 is doing a disservice, I believe. Why? Because to realize a $100 price the seller needs to know that the card has the potential to garner that retail price. He needs to know how to properly market, sell, and deliver this product in a professional manner. To me, nooby is most likely the kind of person who is going to put the card in a white envelope with a $.39 stamp and mail it out. Just because they don't know any better. Then he is going to find out just how much Ebay and Paypal get for his efforts. His net, under the best of circumstances is not going to be close to $100.
But I don't think that Ebay would be a venue they would choose to use. Why? Because it would take time & effort. Most people are unwilling to put in the time & effort it takes to sell the cards properly to realize the maximum "worth". Not because they are lazy, but because they choose to spend thier time on things they enjoy - just like we do, but our specialty is sports cards.
No, I think they would just want someone to take them off their hands quickly, with minimum effort, but, oh yeah, for maximum retail "worth".
So how many of you recognize this scenario? A little too common? Why do I ask? Because, what is the ethical, or "right" thing to do when faced with this situation? Is it not reasonable to offer a % of the retail value to the nooby? That way there is incentive for the buyer to spend the time to evaluate, market, sell, and deliver the product in a professional manner. But I have also heard people say that "some dealers really ripe people off by only paying a fraction of the value". Also, some noobys, given the perception of retail value will not sell for less. Even though they will not invest the time and effort required to realize full value. This misperception is all too common among noobys (the less informed?). For instance, a nooby has a 1961 Mickey Mantle. Someone tells him that a "10" is worth over $3000. Of course, not knowing any better, they want their card to be worth a lot, so they consider their card to be "in really good condition for a card this old", so it must be "worth" a LOT. In reality it is closer to a 3 - but is likely to decline, because the nooby doesn't know how to handle the card. So what happens? The card stays with the nooby because everyone is trying to rip him off by offering only a fraction of it's "worth". One less card to be rescued and preserved.
For discussion: (considering the above)
1.) How much "help" do you give a nooby? And what form of "help" do you give? Is the "help" worth anything (since it represents years of knowledge and experience)? It can be easy to get sucked in to spending a lot of time spoon feeding the nooby who is unwilling to put in any effort or time himself into educating himself to maximize value. Why should he, when you are doing it for free, and he is going to reap the benefit (ie; higher realized prices).
2.) How do you answer the question "How much is this worth?" ? Would it not be better to provide a (wide) range? Say the card can be worth from $10-$100 depending, rather than say that the card is worth $100 based on the last Ebay sale.
3.) What advice is best to give a nooby for selling his cards? Do you encourage him to do it himself on Ebay, offer to sell them (for a %), or offer a lump sum for the lot (which would be a % of retail)? What is a fair price versus "you really ripped that guy off!"?
4.) Do you take into consideration that without thorough examination, some of the cards may be fake or counterfeit? Again, information that can only be had through time & effort, knowledge & experience.
Just wondering...
Here's the situation:
Someone who knows nothing about cards or collecting has some cards and wonders what they are "worth". It seems to me the "worth" is more than just the intrinsic value of the item. So much has to do with your knowledge of the hobby. Knowledge which takes years to accumulate. So this person, let's call him nooby, has a card that has a "value" of $100 because one just like it sold on Ebay for $100. Telling that person that it is "worth" $100 is doing a disservice, I believe. Why? Because to realize a $100 price the seller needs to know that the card has the potential to garner that retail price. He needs to know how to properly market, sell, and deliver this product in a professional manner. To me, nooby is most likely the kind of person who is going to put the card in a white envelope with a $.39 stamp and mail it out. Just because they don't know any better. Then he is going to find out just how much Ebay and Paypal get for his efforts. His net, under the best of circumstances is not going to be close to $100.
But I don't think that Ebay would be a venue they would choose to use. Why? Because it would take time & effort. Most people are unwilling to put in the time & effort it takes to sell the cards properly to realize the maximum "worth". Not because they are lazy, but because they choose to spend thier time on things they enjoy - just like we do, but our specialty is sports cards.
No, I think they would just want someone to take them off their hands quickly, with minimum effort, but, oh yeah, for maximum retail "worth".So how many of you recognize this scenario? A little too common? Why do I ask? Because, what is the ethical, or "right" thing to do when faced with this situation? Is it not reasonable to offer a % of the retail value to the nooby? That way there is incentive for the buyer to spend the time to evaluate, market, sell, and deliver the product in a professional manner. But I have also heard people say that "some dealers really ripe people off by only paying a fraction of the value". Also, some noobys, given the perception of retail value will not sell for less. Even though they will not invest the time and effort required to realize full value. This misperception is all too common among noobys (the less informed?). For instance, a nooby has a 1961 Mickey Mantle. Someone tells him that a "10" is worth over $3000. Of course, not knowing any better, they want their card to be worth a lot, so they consider their card to be "in really good condition for a card this old", so it must be "worth" a LOT. In reality it is closer to a 3 - but is likely to decline, because the nooby doesn't know how to handle the card. So what happens? The card stays with the nooby because everyone is trying to rip him off by offering only a fraction of it's "worth". One less card to be rescued and preserved.
For discussion: (considering the above)
1.) How much "help" do you give a nooby? And what form of "help" do you give? Is the "help" worth anything (since it represents years of knowledge and experience)? It can be easy to get sucked in to spending a lot of time spoon feeding the nooby who is unwilling to put in any effort or time himself into educating himself to maximize value. Why should he, when you are doing it for free, and he is going to reap the benefit (ie; higher realized prices).
2.) How do you answer the question "How much is this worth?" ? Would it not be better to provide a (wide) range? Say the card can be worth from $10-$100 depending, rather than say that the card is worth $100 based on the last Ebay sale.
3.) What advice is best to give a nooby for selling his cards? Do you encourage him to do it himself on Ebay, offer to sell them (for a %), or offer a lump sum for the lot (which would be a % of retail)? What is a fair price versus "you really ripped that guy off!"?
4.) Do you take into consideration that without thorough examination, some of the cards may be fake or counterfeit? Again, information that can only be had through time & effort, knowledge & experience.
Just wondering...
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Comments
Yes, I collect shiny modern crap
All your Shaq are belong to me
I joined this board because of the fact that a nooby can come here and ask questions without fear of someone ripping them a new one. I've seen this too many times on other boards. Yes, we have experience that comes with collecting for many years, thats why they are asking us for help. But I for one, enjoy being able to help a fellow collector with questions. A lot of the questions posted are better answered by other members, but if I can share what I do know with someone, I am more than happy to. If it is here, or at a show, if I can help someone with a question, I will do my best to do so. I do that in every part of my life, no matter where I am at or what the question is, it is just my nature. And I also try to keep in mind that at one time or another, ALL of us were noobys.
<< <i>1.) How much "help" do you give a nooby? And what form of "help" do you give? Is the "help" worth anything (since it represents years of knowledge and experience)? It can be easy to get sucked in to spending a lot of time spoon feeding the nooby who is unwilling to put in any effort or time himself into educating himself to maximize value. Why should he, when you are doing it for free, and he is going to reap the benefit (ie; higher realized prices). >>
Everyone has their own lines on how much help to give. As long as I don't feel like someone is taking advantage of me, I will continue to try to help, or point them in a good direction. I give what help I deem necessary, I share what experience or information I feel is relevant. Is it worth anything? Yes it is, but I for one don't feel like anyone owes me because I share some of my knowledge with them. Sharing with them is reward enough for me. Just don't take advantage of my kindness.
<< <i>2.) How do you answer the question "How much is this worth?" ? Would it not be better to provide a (wide) range? Say the card can be worth from $10-$100 depending, rather than say that the card is worth $100 based on the last Ebay sale. >>
I give them price guide values, maybe a link or two from Ebay and let them decide. That's why they call them guides. This links into the part where I share what I know and try to steer them in a good direction.
<< <i>3.) What advice is best to give a nooby for selling his cards? Do you encourage him to do it himself on Ebay, offer to sell them (for a %), or offer a lump sum for the lot (which would be a % of retail)? What is a fair price versus "you really ripped that guy off!"? >>
I encourge them to look at all aspects and sell them in the way that works best for them. Again, this goes hand in hand with steering them in a good direction. I won't give them my opinion, but tell them what options they have. They need to decide what is fair and what they value them at. All I can do is point out the avenues.
<< <i>4.) Do you take into consideration that without thorough examination, some of the cards may be fake or counterfeit? Again, information that can only be had through time & effort, knowledge & experience. >>
No, I do not. That would take hands on and a bit more research than I have time for. But if I know a certain card may be fake, or has been faked in the past, I would share that with them. I would encourage them to have it looked at by a professional before trying to sell it. If they came on here with a '52 Mantle and it was mint, I would encourage them to send it to PSA to make sure it is real, not trimmed and such. I am no expert, but once again, I would try to steer them in a good direction.
Please notice in my replies that I use the term "good direction". I use that because I do not feel there is any "right" direction and I do not claim to be right. To me, what is right or wrong is up to each and every one of us. None of us are going to agree 100% on everything, it is all a matter of preference.