NNC Quality
fullerfun4
Posts: 385
Over a period of time I purchased several coins encapsulated and graded by NNC. I got them at a very reduced cost and thought that they were cheap enough that even if overgraded they were still a decent buy.
I finally got around to verifying their quality. I cracked out 9 coins and sent them in to ICG ( I couldn't bring myself to send them to PCGS). They just came back the other day and here are the results:
1929-D Winged Liberty dime: NNC 68 FB; ICG MS64.
1878 7/8 TF Strong: NNC MS64; ICG MS62.
1880-O Morgan: NNC MS 64; ICG AU55.
1882 Morgan: NNC MS66; ICG MS63.
1883-S Mrogan: NNC MS63; ICG No Grade (AT)
1890-O Morgan: NNC MS65; ICG MS61.
1890-S Morgan: NNC MS65; ICG MS63.
1891-O Morgan: NNc MS63; NNC AU55.
1896-O Morgan: NNC MS62; ICG NG (AT).
Their average was 3.5 grades lower by ICG as compared to NNC (I would hate to see what PCGS would have done to them!)
In watching these coins on Ebay, they seem to go for about 2 grades lower than their NNC grade. Most people probably think that at that price they are a bargain, but my experience is that they actually sell for at least twice as much as they are really worth. Expensive lesson.
The moral of the story is that buying third world slabbed coins is a huge mistake, especially if you rely on scans and you don't have an opportunity to see the coins in hand.
Hopefully this little experiment will help educate some out there that just because a coin is encapsulated doesn't mean that it is anywhere close to what it is represented to be.
Regards
Gary
I finally got around to verifying their quality. I cracked out 9 coins and sent them in to ICG ( I couldn't bring myself to send them to PCGS). They just came back the other day and here are the results:
1929-D Winged Liberty dime: NNC 68 FB; ICG MS64.
1878 7/8 TF Strong: NNC MS64; ICG MS62.
1880-O Morgan: NNC MS 64; ICG AU55.
1882 Morgan: NNC MS66; ICG MS63.
1883-S Mrogan: NNC MS63; ICG No Grade (AT)
1890-O Morgan: NNC MS65; ICG MS61.
1890-S Morgan: NNC MS65; ICG MS63.
1891-O Morgan: NNc MS63; NNC AU55.
1896-O Morgan: NNC MS62; ICG NG (AT).
Their average was 3.5 grades lower by ICG as compared to NNC (I would hate to see what PCGS would have done to them!)
In watching these coins on Ebay, they seem to go for about 2 grades lower than their NNC grade. Most people probably think that at that price they are a bargain, but my experience is that they actually sell for at least twice as much as they are really worth. Expensive lesson.
The moral of the story is that buying third world slabbed coins is a huge mistake, especially if you rely on scans and you don't have an opportunity to see the coins in hand.
Hopefully this little experiment will help educate some out there that just because a coin is encapsulated doesn't mean that it is anywhere close to what it is represented to be.
Regards
Gary
We are always better off than we deserve. 
0
Comments
They come to you in a stapled flip.
motto comes up again.
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
NNC was invented by Ebay. My own coin grading service is better.
Ebay did not invent anything to do with coin grading or slabbing.
eBay seller Centles might dream up something.
<< <i><STRONG>NNC was invented by Ebay. My own coin grading service is better.
They come to you in a stapled flip.
No, NNC is a slabbing company that is owned by the eBay seller who sells most of the coins it slabs. Its grades are IMO no better than anyone writing a grade on a 2x2, but the plastic slab asks buyers to believe that the grade was independently determined. Some buyers apparently do believe the grade on an NNC slab "isn't too far off", but as the original poster has shown, in his experience that the NNC grade can be way over the real grade of the coin. I haven't yet seen a coin that NNC has undergraded, if anyone has one, please post it and the details.
Let's see how the values came out: (Greysheet bid for avg. 2 grades below for NNC, Greysheet bid for ICG)
1929-D Winged Liberty dime: NNC 68 FB; ICG MS64. $180 for 65FB, $25 for MS64, loss of 86%
1878 7/8 TF Strong: NNC MS64; ICG MS62. 2 grades lower would be same value
1880-O Morgan: NNC MS 64; ICG AU55. $300 for 63, $17 for AU, loss of 94%
1882 Morgan: NNC MS66; ICG MS63. $51 for 64, $36 for 63, loss of 29%
1883-S Mrogan: NNC MS63; ICG No Grade (AT) $480 for 60, call it AU $110, loss of 77%
1890-O Morgan: NNC MS65; ICG MS61. $83 for 63, $42 for 60, loss of 49%
1890-S Morgan: NNC MS65; ICG MS63. 2 grades lower would be same value
1891-O Morgan: NNc MS63; NNC AU55. $100 for 60, $26 for AU, loss of 74%
1896-O Morgan: NNC MS62; ICG NG (AT). $1,075 for 60, call it AU $675, loss of 37%
So if someone paid appx. 2 grades lower for the NNC coin, assuming you believe that the ICG grade is accurate, on two coins they broke even, on three they lost from 29% to 49%, and on 4 they lost 74% to 94%. I'll let the readers draw their own conclusions from this data.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Regards
Gary
<< <i>In watching these coins on Ebay, they seem to go for about 2 grades lower than their NNC grade. Most people probably think that at that price they are a bargain, but my experience is that they actually sell for at least twice as much as they are really worth. >>
Based on the NNC stuff I've purchased, I completely agree.
Russ, NCNE
AN OPINION
PowerSeller Plugging Away
We should do a profit analysis on the final price of this one.
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
Thanks---good example
No pics but probably very much like the ones NNC would use.
Seems like everyone agrees, the seller may have slabbed them himself.
JT
I collect all 20th century series except gold including those series that ended there.
- Jim
<< <i>You see, in my shop, when someone brings a coin in from one of these shaddy companies, I use to send them packing, and I didnt care what the coin was, or what the grade was... Until about a month ago when a guy came in with a NNC MS68 1932 D Washington quarter...
He stated he got it off Ebay for 3500 dollars, and wanted to get my opinion and try to make some fast cash. Now I have to say this, the coin was AMAZING, which is why it caught my eye. I mean full cartwheel, solid unmarked fields, and a luster that would make you cry for this coin... IT GLEAMED. So I examined it under my scope, and sure enough, the d was real, the field were immaculate, and the coin was breathtaking. BUT......... Being in the buisness, I know one thing.. NEVER BUY CRAP you cant fully see from these companies.
So I made a deal with the guy, he has been a customer for about 3 years, that I would send it in to PCGS for regrade and reholder at my expense, and pay the agreed price upon return of the coins authenication. He agreed and off the coin went. Low and behold, my intuitions were right, The coin was a fake.. The coin had a 1932 face, and another D minted reverse.. Some mackinist had literally sawed the coin in half, and bound to different sided together. and of course in the NNC holder, you couldnt see the seem. I contacted the owner, and he spoke to the PCGS rep, and the coin was sent back. Upon recieving it, I got to see the seem, and man was if OBVIOUS.... Someone had done a good job to be honest, but it was very evident the edge of the quarter was tampered with. >>
And this "grading" company was started by a guy who won one of the rounds in the PCGS grading contest.
Russ, NCNE
Guilt overcame me, and I decided I should pay the piper and get the REAL truth.
I cracked the golden beauty out of its NNC slab and sent it off to PCGS last December.
It came backed graded MS62 by PCGS.
Guess even NNC can grade on the low side once in a blue moon.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
<< <i>Here is an interesting auction:
PowerSeller Plugging Away
We should do a profit analysis on the final price of this one. >>
I have an 11-D that's even better than that one (though it's hard to tell from the fuzzy scans). The one I have has also been cleaned, but at least doesn't look pink. But it's got such a sharp strike that it's probably a 68 at least!
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Regards
Gary
Guess even NNC can grade on the low side once in a blue moon.
What makes you think PCGS didn't overgrade it?
If you cracked it out again, what are the odds PCGS would regrade it 55 or 58?
<< <i>What makes you think PCGS didn't overgrade it?
If you cracked it out again, what are the odds PCGS would regrade it 55 or 58? >>
A very useful mindset for proving your point.
If PCGS grades it lower then it proves the other TPG was overgrading
If PCGS grades it the same or higher, then PCGS has made a rare error because the other TPG overgrades.
<< <i>Here is an interesting auction:
PowerSeller Plugging Away
We should do a profit analysis on the final price of this one. >>
Real clean(ed)...
<< <i>
<< <i>What makes you think PCGS didn't overgrade it?
If you cracked it out again, what are the odds PCGS would regrade it 55 or 58? >>
A very useful mindset for proving your point.
If PCGS grades it lower then it proves the other TPG was overgrading
If PCGS grades it the same or higher, then PCGS has made a rare error because the other TPG overgrades. >>
Senseless is a world class grader. He proved that in the PCGS grading competition a few years ago. Why would he slab a true 62 in an NNC 62 holder? That makes no sense. PCGS must have overgraded the coin, or perhaps missed some puttying or other work on it - it's happened before. There is NO other reasonable explanation.
Charlotte gold dollar with problems
-RG
<< <i>I wonder what the winning bidder is going to do with this coin?
Charlotte gold dollar with problems
-RG >>
I was watching that coin too. He was underbidder on the 1851-C in the ANACS 60 cleaned holder from the same seller. I'm relatively sure we'll be seeing the 1850-C in an NNC MS?? slab within a month.
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
Chance favors the prepared mind.
On the positive side, on several occasions I have returned coins to him with no problem. It is amazing how many coins he sells per week, generally over a thousand.
In thinking about the seller's apparent grading abilities (it is my understanding that he won the PCGS Grading Contest one year), it is hard to understand how he could garde the coins in NNC holders the way he does with a clear conscience. JMHO
Regards
Gary
<< <i>I sent the results of this little experiment to the seller/grader prior to putting it out on this forum so that he could discuss it or explain it. But I received no response. I have tried to communicate with him in the past about other issues to no avail.
On the positive side, on several occasions I have returned coins to him with no problem. It is amazing how many coins he sells per week, generally over a thousand.
In thinking about the seller's apparent grading abilities (it is my understanding that he won the PCGS Grading Contest one year), it is hard to understand how he could garde the coins in NNC holders the way he does with a clear conscience. JMHO
Regards
Gary >>
Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
ANA Member R-3147111
Chance favors the prepared mind.
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