Trade Dollar / Cleaned??

Rob85635

Ok, learning as much as I can, ... this Trade dollar has indications from what I am learning that it has been cleaned. Very fine scratches seem to be showing in pictures 3 and 4 in the first column and picture 2 in column 2. Am I wrong? If so what am I missing? The price is climbing so I figure it is a good coin.

1875 CC trade dollar

Rob the Newbie

tradedollarnut

It's not even a real coin. Note the transition to the shoulder on the eagle's neck feathers on the coin's pic vs on the pic of my coin:

Rob85635

Hmm, I see that. I am not good with trade dollars and know a lot are fake. Is it possible it might be a die variety for that year that is slightly different? Shame too, such a beautiful coin. Yours makes me cry, or envious, or ... well, both.

So has it been cleaned?

Rob the Newbie

tradedollarnut

A cleaned fake raw on ebay. Strike three - yer out!

shirohniichan

I've never seen type II neck feathers with a type I claw on the same eagle before.

keoj

Rob,

Sorry Rob, TDN is correct.....this is a fake (no die variety, just fake). It's kind of an obvious one....there are much more difficult to detect ones out there. On ebay, just buy quality TPG coins (such as PCGS or NGC) and you should be okay. I'll send you a link to Trade Dollar diagnostics in a few minutes.

keoj

keoj

These are the diagnostics that I look for:

- Is the type I and II obverse and reverse correct for the year: TYpe I obverses from 73 to 76, Type II obverses from 76 to 85, Type I reverse from 73 to 76, Type II reverse from 75 to 86. There are no such varieties as a Type II/I.
- Is the mintmark consistent with the year (ie there is no Type II/II 76-CC...there are Type II/II 76 and 76-s's). There are many of these that exist and don't come easy unless you know the series well. Eaxmple, for 77 business strikes, generally the stars are weak around Miss Liberties head. Or, 99% of 76 Type I/I's don't have a perod after FINE.
- The 76-S Type I/II or Type II/II's generally have micro s' (but there are a few large S sample extent)
- For a Type I and Type II obverses and reverses, there are certain die characteristics that one should look for. Such as, the neck feathers on the left side are not contiguous on Type I reverses and they are on Type II's. Or the scroll ends point down on Type II obverses and point left on Type I's.
- There are actually two type of Type II Obverses and Reverses (very subtle) titled Type IIM and Type IIL for 77 and 78 dates.
- I look at denticles to make sure they look okay and not exagerated
- If the coin is raw, I'll look at the reeds


This is just an example of why one should avoid a raw trade dollar on ebay unless you know the series.

Rob85635

Keoj,

Thanks for the info. I simply wanted to know if it was cleaned. If it was then I think I am learning. I had no plans to bid on it, I will not buy any trade dollars not slabbed because I don't know enough. I was just asking others if it looked cleaned because I am sorta new at this and trying to learn.

Consensus is that it is cleaned, I am proud of myself for getting something right.

Rob the Newbie

tradedollarnut

It appears cleaned, but isn't necessarily. The surface qualities of a fake vary from those of a real coin. If this were a real coin, then absolutely - the dull nonlustrous surfaces would be a dead giveaway. However, this counterfeit could have looked like that right from the get go. After all, why clean a recently produced 'token' ... it wouldn't have any toning to remove.

CarsonCityGold

Current bid $342 -

123cents

keoj

Rob,

To answer your question specifically, the quality of the picture is poor but the coin does not look cleaned to me. It definitely looks cast (and you can see the porosity on the surface), but not cleaned.

keoj